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JSWFB
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Quote :
"It's already not made the point, there is nothing we can do in this university to change the way they say it is, it has been like that forever... What's left is make people aware of the issue. We have already had news coverage of 2 local stations, and i expect more with the current state of things. People who work with the media often express the idea that knowledge and being informed is a check and balance of this nation. If it sounds rediculous, don't shut up about it. I'm wondering why i'm the only one posting the information from the thing tonight when the most relivant speaker representing the university held THIS THREAD in his hands and made multiple references to it. The fact that we can say stupid things here is one of the things that makes us who we are."



I'm here too, but had not planned to post until later. I do think we can change the way the University is, however it takes a lot of support and a lot of time to make a little bit of progress – that is the way it has always been. Unfortunately, it has always been in recent too that students’ energy just fades away after while. The way we can make some change is to keep talking about this subject... don’t leave it to die, because like our past has shown, it will. I think everyone knows that.

In this case we have less than 15 students out of 30,000 at this University that are directly affected at this point in time. There have been a handful in the past and if nothing is done, more than a handful in the future. However the next time this happens, there will not be another meeting. What was done tonight is done, you shouldn’t ever plan realistically to see another of the same scale on this topic.

Here are some changes I do think we can make:

I feel that if we work with University Housing, we may be able to make some progress on setting more formal enforcement guidelines as to what RAs should and shouldn’t cite students for. As someone put it, putting down on paper what should be “common sense” when it comes to choosing to pursue certain cases... something many felt, including myself admittedly, the RA and RD should have had. Students should have explicit guidelines to look at as well, however now any type of written guideline on how RAs and/or RDs should go about enforcing policy is non-existent. Even if that means housing says EVERY type of evidence is admissible, putting that policy explicitly down on paper would be a first step in the right direction.

The same goes for Student Conduct, however I hope that these groups would be willing to take that step themselves if we support them. Some accuse Student Conduct of leaving policy as vague as it is to allow for a broad interpretation however Paul, or anyone else there chooses. I would not like to think that is the case, but I can’t say that I don’t. Making policy AND procedure more explicit, or writing enforcement “process” into policy would be positive steps to develop a more honest relationship with the student body, however that may come about.

There is no doubt that Mr. Cousins and much of the student body do not share the same values when it comes to the affect of enforcing policy in the manor he has chosen. Many feel, including myself, that we should be looking around the internet to find more serious cases of student conduct violations than several month old pictures of students with alcohol paraphernalia, if at all. I’d rather see Paul Cousins and his staff working harder on serious academic integrity cases to protect and preserve the value of a degree at this institution and not invest as much time in low-priority social affairs. Our state motto is “Esse Quam Videri” and it means “To be, rather than to seem.” I feel as the leading college in this state, Student Conduct should be focusing on making our degree represent the same. Students drinking may reflect negatively on the value of our degree to employers, but that to me is not why I am here. I am here because of the quality of skills that a degree from here represents, and maintaining that quality is what matters most. When I walk away from State, I hope to have confidence in my talents acquired over a lot of prestige attached to the degree for other reasons. I’m not saying curbing binge drinking is not important to keeping a positive environment at the university, but what I am saying is I feel we need to act positively to address that – possibly putting the energy of Student Conduct enforcing the citations from RAs that break up a triple-kegger the night of, rather than a citation after waiting a half-year later and coming up with photos when you have more serious matters on the table that could benefit from a spare 10-20 minutes of Mr. Cousins’ time. If we can move towards more explicit policy, this means if it takes writing procedure into policy then so be it, however it may come about, then we can start the next discussion on how to reconcile it to best suit our values, both as administrators and students at this institution.


The next place where we can go with this is seeing that the RA and RD will be reprimanded. Judging by Susan Grant’s comments after the student testimony tonight, that will happen. I would not be surprised if one or both were fired by or before semester-end, with the buzzword she used as to how housing staff are punished (related to employment... I can’t remember the exact phrase). I’m not saying this because the way they enforced the policy, although I do feel it was intrusive, unnecessary, and inappropriate. The reason I say this is what they have done to the community as a result of their conduct throughout the whole process. The number one rule as a member of housing so I’ve heard is that you DO NOT BREAK THE COMMUNITY, and they have done just that. Susan throughout the meeting said that when these violations come up, they should begin with a discussion. That discussion should have begun last week when the residents met with the RD, and she noted that too, however due to the conduct of the RD, the students left upset, suspicious, and feeling disrespected. Susan said afterwards that she’s sure they’ll get another chance at a discussion (in a good way) and I feel that they will – if not with that RD, possibly someone higher up who will be instructed to show them the respect they deserve and try to rebuild the community in Alexander that was disrupted. The RA 100% needs to be moved or fired, leaving her there will not do any good for the community in Alexander. And the RD might need some incentive to learn some “common sense” as someone put it. Anyways, if this happens it will improve the community there and get things back on track as to how they should be. If the RA gets out of Alexander as she should under whatever means, Susan deserves some praise.


Besides making policy more explicit and rebuilding the community in Alexander, this issue after tonight has brought up several others... too much to go into in this post. However I will talk about them later on.

I hope this gives some input into where I’m looking at going and I hope you guys understand that the comments I have expressed in this post are by no means complete and set in stone in my mind, they’re just suggestions. If any of you guys have others, post them here. You are and will continue to be listened to.


Lee, I wanted to know I read your post. I appreciate you really putting thought into it and I took that into account on how I prepared for tonight’s town hall.

And finally, Paul, since you are reading this I want to thank you for coming out tonight and contributing to the discussion. We do have a values-conflict, but your intent following through with your job is well meant, I’ll give you that. However the this thread you brought to the meeting tonight clad with post-it note multi-colored sticky quote tags was a bit spooky. If you don’t understand the concept of “trolls” you may want to do some research... I hope you’ll understand afterwards.

11/4/2005 4:35:13 AM

Perlith
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Was last night just a discussion, or were "action items" / a plan of action formed as a result? Talk is nice, but I agree with JSWFB ... student's energy fades away, and quickly. How many people remember (and care about) this: http://technicianonline.com/story.php?id=005163?

11/4/2005 6:31:47 AM

mrfrog

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Quote :
"The next place where we can go with this is seeing that the RA and RD will be reprimanded. Judging by Susan Grant’s comments after the student testimony tonight, that will happen."


That's not the impression i got from the broken record. Every question she was asked she gave some peice of information that was irrelivant and could be found through the housing homepage. She constantly asked people "so what's you question" and never said anything relivant to the questions put clearly fourth. This one in particular i seem to remember her saying something about in general RAs and RDs will be repremanded within the system. It was completley meaningless (except that they conveyed that if the RA was repremanded we would never know), or at least I took it as such.

Quote :
"mm glad to know cousins knows where the voice of the students stands


too bad the university doesn't give a damn"


Right the fuck on! Can the leaders of this university not possibly immagine the type of "community" it creates when we're told the only time people listen to us is to bust us for something?

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 7:20 AM. Reason : ]

11/4/2005 7:19:05 AM

Excoriator
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you guys are pussies.

take it up with the chancellor.

11/4/2005 8:14:22 AM

Dumbass
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Quote :
" I feel we need to act positively to address that – possibly putting the energy of Student Conduct enforcing the citations from RAs that break up a triple-kegger the night of, rather than a citation after waiting a half-year later "


tripple keggers are weak 10keggers are where its at...

and btw... would this be a violation of university policy under paraphernalia? its technically on centinial campus...



oh wait... I'm 23 it doesn't matter

11/4/2005 8:28:10 AM

Excoriator
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you tease! they got all horny to bust you

11/4/2005 8:35:52 AM

pttyndal
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^^ dude that's awesome. how long did they they take to build?

11/4/2005 8:42:12 AM

Str8BacardiL
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Somebody Photochop a fucking pick of paul cousins doing a line of coke on his desk. I dont know how to make one but could really do something funny if i had one.

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 8:49 AM. Reason : .]

11/4/2005 8:47:00 AM

DirtyGreek
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"well, you type well"


i thought the same thing

11/4/2005 8:54:10 AM

Dumbass
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It took from august to february last year to make the belltower... may to august to make the block S...

but now they are tearing my house down and I have no Idea what to do with the belltower... I'm not just going to randomly GIVE it away...

11/4/2005 12:56:07 PM

Jere
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I promised myself I wouldn't post in this thread again, but I feel it necessary.

Sorry Joe, but this thinking is just about as backwards as it gets.

Quote :
"The next place where we can go with this is seeing that the RA and RD will be reprimanded. Judging by Susan Grant’s comments after the student testimony tonight, that will happen. I would not be surprised if one or both were fired by or before semester-end, with the buzzword she used as to how housing staff are punished (related to employment... I can’t remember the exact phrase). I’m not saying this because the way they enforced the policy, although I do feel it was intrusive, unnecessary, and inappropriate. The reason I say this is what they have done to the community as a result of their conduct throughout the whole process. The number one rule as a member of housing so I’ve heard is that you DO NOT BREAK THE COMMUNITY, and they have done just that. Susan throughout the meeting said that when these violations come up, they should begin with a discussion. That discussion should have begun last week when the residents met with the RD, and she noted that too, however due to the conduct of the RD, the students left upset, suspicious, and feeling disrespected. Susan said afterwards that she’s sure they’ll get another chance at a discussion (in a good way) and I feel that they will – if not with that RD, possibly someone higher up who will be instructed to show them the respect they deserve and try to rebuild the community in Alexander that was disrupted. The RA 100% needs to be moved or fired, leaving her there will not do any good for the community in Alexander. And the RD might need some incentive to learn some “common sense” as someone put it. Anyways, if this happens it will improve the community there and get things back on track as to how they should be. If the RA gets out of Alexander as she should under whatever means, Susan deserves some praise."


Let me summarize: residents broke a university housing policy that they agreed to. Let me emphasize this: they fucked up. An RA did exactly what she was trained to do. So... you want her to be fired.

I think it's pretty pointless to argue that they might not have broke the policy. Many of them admitted to Technician that they did. And I really would like to know how many people think the photos have been 'altered.' But it's beside the point. It doesn't matter whether or not they actually broke the policy, because an RA that documents a situation never decides who is guilty. If an RA sees a policy violation, she has to document it. The key word is document. It's completely up to the RD what happens from there. You might not agree with what happened, but you can't say it goes against training. RA's are told to document policy violations. I don't know how else to put it.

Here the greatest part:

Quote :
"The number one rule as a member of housing so I’ve heard is that you DO NOT BREAK THE COMMUNITY, and they have done just that."


Oh, so if my floor likes to toke up in their dorm everyday, I shouldn't document it because it would break the community. Right... If RA's focused on people getting upset over policy enforcement, policy enforcement would never happen. If these kids really are found guilty of a policy violation, so what? Do you think they are going to get kicked out? The punishment for an alcohol violation is quite mild. You think that "breaks the community"?


So please, tell me how an RA deserves to get fired for doing what she was trained.

11/4/2005 1:08:28 PM

HUR
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"I think it's pretty pointless to argue that they might not have broke the policy. Many of them admitted to Technician that they did. And I really would like to know how many people think the photos have been 'altered.' But it's beside the point. It doesn't matter whether or not they actually broke the policy, because an RA that documents a situation never decides who is guilty. If an RA sees a policy violation, she has to document it. The key word is document. It's completely up to the RD what happens from there. You might not agree with what happened, but you can't say it goes against training. RA's are told to document policy violations. I don't know how else to put it.
"


the RA did not have search to through facebook looking for images of possible pictures of residents using alcohol. taking it upon herself to investigate a alcohol violation then write everyone up. it was purely a malicious act on the RA's part to see the residents contained in the photos get in trouble.

Quote :
"Oh, so if my floor likes to toke up in their dorm everyday, I shouldn't document it because it would break the community. Right... If RA's focused on people getting upset over policy enforcement, policy enforcement would never happen. If these kids really are found guilty of a policy violation, so what? Do you think they are going to get kicked out? The punishment for an alcohol violation is quite mild. You think that "breaks the community"?

"


their is a difference btw an RA smelling smoke as someone gets high in their room, and going through someone's online pictures and writing them up for something that may have happened weeks ago. if the RA walked in on the kids drinking or saw them carrying beer around, then yeah they would deserve punishment. but what she did is just really fucked up

its all about respect for authority and people with authority not crossing the boundry. police have to deal w/ this all the time. they can not just go out and do whatever they want b.c their are rules in place and in order to enforce the law they need a general respect of the law from society as a whole. what this RA bitch did definity signficantly undermined the respect that the residents of the dorms have for the RA's thus increasing the difficulty of their job



[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 1:21 PM. Reason : l]

11/4/2005 1:17:09 PM

Jere
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^I understand, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be fired.

I'm not asking you if you think she should be fired, but what would reason could the university have to fire her?

11/4/2005 1:19:48 PM

jgibelttil
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so anybody actually know what the pics show? post them here perhaps?

11/4/2005 1:20:58 PM

juiceyman
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^^ Susan Grant clearly stated that an RA "Hunting" for violations is grounds for punishment, but I suppose any of that will be overlooked due to the massive amount of harrassment this girl has been recieving as of late. Anyone in their right mind would think that would be punishment enough...

The pics were available for review at the meeting last night. I must admit the grounds for alarm on some of the pics was quite rediculous. for instance, there was one pic with sarah and 4 others. Everyone but sarah had a cup in their had. In the background was 1 beer on a table. From this picture the conclusion was drawn that sarah must have clearly owned that beer.

I must admit that Paul Cousins is a very fair guy, and from his speech last night, he actually answered some questions and clearly showed that he was an understanding person (unlike some other speakers). He made it very clear that pictures with a can of beer in them is nothing compared to what he usually deals with and thus is realized occordingly.

Some other interesting information revealed last night was that the RA sifted through well over 2500+ pics to locate 15, and each had to be analyzed to for determination of "can I associate that beer in the background with anybody in this pic and why". So if that isn't hunting, i don't know what is.

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 1:33 PM. Reason : more info]

11/4/2005 1:25:06 PM

mattc
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Ok, for everyone who still doesn't know what the real issue is:


THE REAL ISSUE IS NOT:

If they violated school housing policy. They did.


THE REAL ISSUE IS:

The RA overstepped her bounderies by searching the internet for violations.


ALSO:

Paul Cousins I know you're a reasonable man and very intelligent, because I have spoken to you before. You must realize that the threat made earlier in this thread is meaningless. It was definantly uncalled for, but THIS IS THE WOLF WEB. If you'll guide yourself to Chit Chat you'll see thousands of meaningless posts made daily. Come on.

11/4/2005 1:43:12 PM

Str8BacardiL
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Quote :
"It took from august to february last year to make the belltower... may to august to make the block S...

but now they are tearing my house down and I have no Idea what to do with the belltower... I'm not just going to randomly GIVE it away...

"


i wonder if using it for a lawn ornament would violate the restrictive covenants of my townhosue

11/4/2005 2:12:30 PM

GoldenViper
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my life at state has been like a Chan-wook Park film

murder, torture, rape, sexual pervesion, theft, drugs

i've done it all on campus

anyone want investigate me for it?

Benjamin Abbott
2161 N. Salem st.
606-3716

11/4/2005 2:16:55 PM

Dumbass
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hahaha, I'm trying to get rid of it right now if anybody is interested in a large scale testimony to alcohol paraphernalia

11/4/2005 2:17:19 PM

mrfrog

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Quote :
"He made it very clear that pictures with a can of beer in them is nothing compared to what he usually deals with and thus is realized occordingly."


So they hold "hearings" where they tell you the charge is "alcohol violation" and ask for a plea of guilty of not guilty and expect lots of "yes sirs", as rogueleader enlightened us all on. They don't show you the evidence, say they can't even give you the evidence and don't listen to a word that comes out of your mouth.

There was some statement that flew last night from Paul Cousins that you should be an adult and just say that you drank if you drank. And then there was more said about being an adult. So we're supposed to act like adults while being treated as children. ooh, i get it now.

11/4/2005 2:45:31 PM

ParksNrec
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I find this all very funny because the one time I got caught long ago with a bookbag full of liqour and beer, all I did was walk into the office the next day, tell the lady it belonged to a passed out friend, and walked out without any punishment.

11/4/2005 2:50:33 PM

JSWFB
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"Let me summarize: residents broke a university housing policy that they agreed to. Let me emphasize this: they fucked up. An RA did exactly what she was trained to do. So... you want her to be fired."


I don't feel she needs to be fired unless there is no other place she can do her job on campus. but reprimanded yes, what she done was inappropriate. What I was alluding to is that Susan is very professional, if she takes a couple extra steps beyond that I wouldn’t be surprised.

One thing to think about is if everyone on-campus knows her now and what she did, do you feel she would be a positive contribution to any part of campus as an RA should be? I don't have anything personal against her, I just feel that she is not capable of her job in her current environment once she's turned the community against her. Swap her with someone else, that's the least of what could be done.


Quote :
" Oh, so if my floor likes to toke up in their dorm everyday, I shouldn't document it because it would break the community. Right... If RA's focused on people getting upset over policy enforcement, policy enforcement would never happen. If these kids really are found guilty of a policy violation, so what? Do you think they are going to get kicked out? The punishment for an alcohol violation is quite mild. You think that "breaks the community"?"


Yes, I do feel it “breaks the community” in the way it was handled. It is a lot different in my eyes if you spent your time going through photo galleries to identify your residents, write them up for violations then hiding in your room than going to them with respect and dignity, stating to them, “I hope you understand, being an RA it is my job to document you guys doing xxxx since it is a violation of housing policy. I’m not out to get you, but when other residents complain and I recognize the odor passing by your door, professionally I can not turn a blind eye to this situation. Please know I will not belittle you because of this and if you’d like to talk about the violation please speak to RDx, her door is always open and she is willing to discuss any grievances you have with this situation.” This would be a mature response and one of the sort that was not taken. But please don’t assault me with technicalities on how this would not be possible, I do understand there are some but what I’m trying to say is that there are different ways to handle situations like these on the part of the RA and the RD, and a mature professional response was not taken in the manor it should have been.

As for punishments, have you checked with the Study Abroad office about what will happen to students who have in their agreement they can not have a disciplinary probation on their record to continue here. Possible expulsion after this semester from NC State when you were planning to stay a year is a whole different animal than writing a paper and doing an online educational program... especially for violations which for many are very questionable as if they should have even come up in the first place. This case is exceptional to say the least, but does a lot of good to shine light on a whole host of larger problems and things we could do better at this University. At least this is my opinion.

11/4/2005 2:58:39 PM

CarlyAnne
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I don't go to your school, I'm not even in college anymore, but seeing this and knowing how myspace and stuff works, in theory, could they not use ANY pictures of ANYONE underage drinking to write them up? It doesn't make sense. Once you start targeting on campus residents can't you soon begin targeting ANYONE for underage drinking? It seems to me that this was not a can of worms the University would have wanted to even open.

11/4/2005 2:58:56 PM

juiceyman
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When it comes top Paul and how he deals with things, I definatly say he is fair and the way things get handeled through him/ his office usually go how they should. Something big to remeber here is that when you get busted @ NCSU and you go to see Paul, he is not the police thus is NOT bound by legal statues in your sentancing. Thus if he has any doubt that you are not telling the truth, he can only make it worse, with or with our hard evidence. But all that is beside the point, the actions of the Office of Student Conduct are not in question here. Don't get me wrong, I definatly disagree with them being able to pin stuff on you without truly conclusive evidence, but that is why there are appeals processes and then you have the option of making it serious enough to drag in the statues of law; so if you are innocent it is worth fighting, but if you are guilty, don't waste your time. Just like Paul said, alchol isn't that big of a deal, he'd rather be going after the big fish, so why waste his/your time trying to fight something that you are clearly guilty of. Know that once you escalate something to that level you better be ready to get one hell of a punishment for wasting Student Conduct's time and money....

I say all that b/c it is clear that these people declaired guilt in their stupid ass quotes that appeared in the technician. So that is NOT that matter at had, the matter at hand is that we should not be punished based on pictures alone, there should be some substantiating evidence to coincide thus proving guilt; on top of that is that RA's should not be hunting this stuff down, even if these pics were just stumbled upon, the best move would have been to first warn the residents that the pics were seen and that something should be done about it, and if the warning was not heeded, then actions should have been taken if approved by the bosses of the RA.





[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 3:04 PM. Reason : q]

11/4/2005 2:59:00 PM

JT3bucky
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http://ncst.facebook.com/group_profile.php?gid=10373

facebookers against facebook prosecution

11/4/2005 3:00:50 PM

juiceyman
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today's post in the technician:
http://www.technicianonline.com/story.php?id=012605

'nuff said


btw: did you guys see the link to this on collegehumor.com , I had to laugh that this actually caused enough buzz to get on a website that college students around the nation look at daily.....

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 3:15 PM. Reason : q1]

11/4/2005 3:14:15 PM

JT3bucky
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page 4 is full of threats lol, by ujustwait84, all of his are threats it seems

11/4/2005 3:18:18 PM

Str8BacardiL
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Quote :
"btw: did you guys see the link to this on collegehumor.com , I had to laugh that this actually caused enough buzz to get on a website that college students around the nation look at daily....."

can you post a link to where it is linked????

11/4/2005 3:20:16 PM

juiceyman
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http://www.collegehumor.com/hotlinks/

scroll down to thursday Nov 3

click on "Kids get in trouble for facebook pics"

11/4/2005 3:23:40 PM

afripino
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will this eventually extend to students posting pictures of themselves smoking from a bong?

11/4/2005 3:28:54 PM

juiceyman
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clearly.... and something else to note based on what Paul said last night, the jurisdiction of Student Conduct extends to any student attending NCSU, this means that just b/c you live off campus does not make you safe.

"now if there is a 4 kegger going on at U-House and I see a pic of you there with 200 other people, I don't have the time to talk with you, BUT if you are the two people that own that appartment and have the 4 kegs sitting in your kitchen, are selling cups @ $3 a pop, and have these 200 people there, you better believe you are going to have a little talk with me..."
-Paul Cousins

11/4/2005 3:37:44 PM

30thAnnZ
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BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PICTURES WHERE THEY WERE CHECKING ID'S?

DIDN'T SEE THOSE HUH?

11/4/2005 3:40:11 PM

HUR
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i bet that amanda bolstien chick got off on the thought of writing up a bunch of students for alcohol violations

11/4/2005 3:44:02 PM

Excoriator
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WHO'S GONNA WRITE UP MR. WUF!!

11/4/2005 3:45:16 PM

Scuba Steve
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Quote :
" Some other interesting information revealed last night was that the RA sifted through well over 2500+ pics to locate 15, and each had to be analyzed to for determination of "can I associate that beer in the background with anybody in this pic and why". So if that isn't hunting, i don't know what is."

11/4/2005 3:52:33 PM

JT3bucky
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2500 holyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy shit

11/4/2005 3:53:41 PM

mattc
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FYI


I've talked with the News & Observer and there will be a story in the paper Monday.

Or this is what I was told by Tim Simmons.


Glad to see they're covering this.

11/4/2005 4:11:51 PM

Noen
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I have to make a response.

1) Paul Cousins is, in my experience in this university, the ONLY level-headed, respectful and sensible person in the entire office of Student Conduct. You guys are losing probably the only student advocate on this campus by lambasting him.

2) If anyone, student conduct, RPD, FBI or whoever else, wants to try and bring legal action from ANYTHING said on this site, that is a case the ACLU will pickup without fail. I would LOVE to see comments made in a board that is well known for being filled with parody and light hearted banter be construed as anything but.

3) Paul referred to and keeps referring to using photos as "evidence" commonly. While they CAN be used as circumstantial evidence to obtain direct evidence, to find people to question, etc; PHOTOS CANNOT BE CREDIBLY USED ALONE.

If it comes down to a person's statement of innocence, versus a digital online photo, and they find the student guilty, you DAMN WELL BETTER BELIEVE I would be suing the school.

This is a PUBLIC institution. It is governed by public law, not some damn arbitrational system. If a student feels a ruling unfair or wrong, you better believe they can take it to the next level.

Frankly I think this ENTIRE issue should be dropped and have rules put in place to deal with it in the future. The only thing that's going to come of pursuing this on either end for the university is BAD PRESS. If this makes national news, it's going to put NCSU in a bad light, the administration and the students. If legal proceedings come, that will only amplify it.

Let everyone involved off with a "don't do it again" warning, and LET IT DROP.

11/4/2005 5:07:30 PM

Ronny
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I agree with everything you say from #3 down. Good call.

11/4/2005 5:14:34 PM

3 of 11
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Have any of the individual cases been decided on yet?

11/4/2005 5:15:20 PM

brianj320
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unfortunately the administration has their heads up their asses and will not let it go with a simple "dont do it again." they are seen as the all powerful ruling force on this campus and it's gonna stay that way. these events are gonna only amplify that because their egotistical, power-hungry, pathetic souls won't allow for these events to just go away.

11/4/2005 5:17:50 PM

AxlBonBach
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and the students won't be happy unless the students are let off scott free, regardless of what they did, because they don't understand the necessity, nor the execution, of a system of rules and standards

11/4/2005 5:18:51 PM

brianj320
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there is nothing wrong with having a system of rules and standards but when the rules and standards set in place are breached, then there is something wrong and something has to be done to fix it. btw, this statement goes for both students and admin alike.

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 5:20 PM. Reason : .]

11/4/2005 5:19:55 PM

GoldenViper
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Quote :
"Paul Cousins is, in my experience in this university, the ONLY level-headed, respectful and sensible person in the entire office of Student Conduct. You guys are losing probably the only student advocate on this campus by lambasting him."


Doesn't matter. We'll crucify and burn them all, then replace them with robots.

11/4/2005 5:21:07 PM

juiceyman
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Quote :
"Frankly I think this ENTIRE issue should be dropped and have rules put in place to deal with it in the future."


I agree, but there is very little chance of that happening based on the comments by Paul and Susan. When they were asked multiple times about the possibility of making some sort of guideline explicity outlineing the rules for pictures, they continually decline the notion as ever even being a possibility.

11/4/2005 5:23:05 PM

AxlBonBach
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i mean, its completely cliche'd. overbearing parental force against rebellious live free or die youngsters. of course everyone should expect that the kids are going to say "fuck the authority," but if they thought about it, they'd beat them at their own game. getting pissed doesnt solve anything.

people think i'm arguing for the administration here: not at all. not arguing for the students either though, because i frankly see alot of faults in both of them. i'm just sitting on the outside shaking my head as both parties continually embarass themselves

11/4/2005 5:23:30 PM

juiceyman
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again I see we are missing the issue. The problem does not lie within the administrators, but rougue RA's with vendettas and the general understanding that the use of a picture obtained from the internet is far from grounds to even waste the time of students with a write-up..... only hard-evidence should be used, ie eye witness by housing staff or actual evidence that can be held on your hand, ie the beer cans from the fridge.

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 5:27 PM. Reason : asdf]

11/4/2005 5:26:51 PM

puck_it
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HAYYYY PAUL

Be very wary that you are setting a dangerous precedent. Use of digital media is marginal at best. Fuhtermore, uou CANNOT use illegally obtained photos, as outlined by the facebook terms of service.

Youd lose in court because of that last one. So drink to it!

11/4/2005 5:51:48 PM

mattc
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ONCE AGAIN


THE REAL ISSUE IS NOT:

If they violated school housing policy. They did.
That the administration is acting like an asshat.


THE REAL ISSUE IS:

The RA overstepped her bounderies by searching the internet for violations.

11/4/2005 6:11:19 PM

GoldenViper
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if they get this excited about facebook pics, just imagine what'll happen once they find out about xuqa.com...

11/4/2005 6:29:31 PM

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