All that stuff you mentioned happens just as often in hockey as it does in basketball

which is not very

2/23/2007 3:27:30 PM

actually it never happens in hockey

2/23/2007 3:30:14 PM

And other than the "bitch slap and run away." which I would compare to a cheap shot in hockey, none of that stuff happens in basketball either, except for 1 time, involving 2-3 players.

Clearly that incriminates the whole association.

2/23/2007 3:33:51 PM

Quote :

"You missed the point."

your point was that hockey fights are more civil because they have more weapons at their disposal than basketball players even though in 99% of fights in both sports its simply punches that are thrown? yeah you're right i must have missed your point

Quote :

"its hockey, they fight, they always have."

ok...then why are you so defensive when someone calls the NHL a bunch of thugs?

Quote :

"they dont bitch slap and run away"

i guess all basketball games end in final scores of 186 to 184 since that also happened one time

Quote :

"melees aren't breaking out in the arena. fans arent running onto the ice to get a piece of the players,"

they would be if they didnt have barriers to prevent them from doing so

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 3:34:16 PM

Linda Ruff is an asshole. He basically pulled a Chaney-esque "Send in the Goons!" after what really wasn't that dirty of a hit.

He should be suspended.

2/23/2007 3:35:43 PM

Hockey fans need to admit that fighting exists in hockey because the sport would die without it.

If they cracked down on the fighting, nobody would watch it.

2/23/2007 3:38:58 PM

^^^all i hear is WAH WAH WAH WAH

hey guess what, its never going to change. get over it. people don't respect the majority of NBA players for a reason

2/23/2007 3:43:35 PM

and the NHL's ratings are worse than the NBA's

what does that say about hockey

the majority of people couldnt NAME an NHL player lol

bitter about having less popularity than NFL, MLB, NBA, CollegeBB, CollegeFB, NASCAR?

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 3:48 PM. Reason : boo hoo]

2/23/2007 3:47:26 PM

dude, im not even a hockey fan, so i don't care about ratings or the popularity of the sport

but i guess it says that hockey isnt on TV enough

2/23/2007 3:48:20 PM

i think it says there isnt enough interest in the sport

2/23/2007 3:48:55 PM

the backstreet boys have one of the best selling albums of all time.

its clearly better then anything below it.

2/23/2007 3:49:25 PM

Quote :

"people like jwb9984 don't respect the majority of NBA players for a no reason"

2/23/2007 3:49:34 PM

i knew from the second this was posted that this would turn into another NBA/NHL debate

2/23/2007 3:49:55 PM

Quote :

"i think it says there isnt enough interest in the sport"

okay. so what? who gives a shit?

Quote :

"people like jwb9984 don't respect the majority of NBA players for a no reason"

do i know you? i don't? oh. then stop assuming shit. i enjoy the NBA fuck face


[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 3:51 PM. Reason : ,]

2/23/2007 3:49:56 PM

^^^exactly

they couldnt even name more than few NBA players and I'm sure Ron Artest would be one of the first

maybe jwb could, but a lot of the blind nba haters couldnt

^probably the hockey fans give a shit that their sport is 2nd 5th fiddle to any other pro sport

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 3:51 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 3:50:28 PM

what does that have to do with anything?

2/23/2007 3:53:00 PM

what does what have to do with anything (which part are you referring to)

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 3:53 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 3:53:23 PM

the only reason i can name anybody in the NBA is because ESPN never shuts up about it even when there is college basketball going on with tournaments coming up

and baseball

2/23/2007 3:53:42 PM

Quote :

"^probably the hockey fans give a shit that their sport is 2nd 5th fiddle to any other pro sport"

that

2/23/2007 3:53:50 PM

what do 1 or 2 fights in the NBA have to do with anything (as far as being representative of the whole league)? nothing but that doesnt stop SOME OF the NHL homers from ripping into the league on some uninformed shit

2/23/2007 3:55:02 PM

Read a good article on Yahoo recently about the Ducks and how fighting is really helping them, and also why it is necessary....but I can't find it

But the basic gist is this: Most penalties aren't called in hockey. Knowing this, it's pretty easy to get away taking a cheap or overly rough shot on a smaller, but talented player...someone important to the team. Not only is it usually easy to get away with, even if you don't you're only penalty is 2 minutes in the box, but now you're definitely in that player's head, and he may or may not be hurting.

The Ducks are currently leading in fighting related PIM I believe. Their philosophy is that they've got to protect their best players. So now when you play the Ducks, and you want to cream a guy because he is stick handling the shit out of you, you think twice about it.

End Result: 1st in their division, 2nd in the Conference.

Obviously how well they are doing can be attributed to a whole lot more...but when you are close to leading the league in PIM, that's impressive.

2/23/2007 3:56:12 PM

my point is, there is a distinct reason that people feel the way they do about NBA players.

you cannot deny that. is it kind of fucked up that people base their views on the league from the occasional incidents? yes.

but hockey is not basketball. its never going to be. you guys can drop the fighting/thug argument anytime. nothing is going to change

2/23/2007 3:57:55 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oLh2El3sYo

Look how they are honorably beating people over the head while they are down.

How classy they are to keep on fighting when people are obviously injured around them.

Man, what a great, thug free sport.

2/23/2007 3:58:05 PM

^they are classier than NBA players for the simple fact that they have sharp skates at their disposal and they choose not to cut people with them

2/23/2007 4:00:12 PM

oh shit! the NHL expanded to france. thats awesome

2/23/2007 4:00:49 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=634nSML35AE

2/23/2007 4:03:14 PM

^^^^thread winner

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 4:03 PM. Reason : fsg]

2/23/2007 4:03:27 PM

how the hell did he "win the thread" when that isn't even the NHL

2/23/2007 4:04:44 PM

do we really want to turn this into a "post videos from sporting event fighting incidents"

seriously?

really?

well, you have fun with that then

2/23/2007 4:05:27 PM

I didn't grow up in Canada or the Northeast but it is my perspective that in hockey, a fight is expected if someone gets a cheap shot. There will be some punches thrown, some penelty minutes, and its over. They don't gloat about. I did grow up in NC where basketball is a way of life (ie Tobacco Road) and I don't remeber that ever being a part of the game. So when to guys start mouthing off becuase he hacked the shit out of him when he was going for a layup, it's not the same. Checking isn't part of basketball just like fighting isn't. It's not as physical. So stop with this double standard shit.

2/23/2007 4:05:31 PM

well stop with this 'OMFG ALL NBA PLAYERS ARE JUST HIP HOP GANGSTER THUGS DOO DUR DOOPDY DUR DUR'

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 4:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 4:06:11 PM

that was a completely different post than you originally had

2/23/2007 4:08:19 PM

^^^ Football is just as physical as Hockey, and the players don't feel the need to beat the shit out of someone for taking a cheap shot.

And when they do fight in football, it's a big deal.

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 4:09 PM. Reason : ]

2/23/2007 4:09:05 PM

get over it man

just move on

2/23/2007 4:09:39 PM

^^^i decided to change it because my revised post was more along the lines of what i was getting at

the "find a fight like that in basketball" thing was kinda dumb

^thanks for telling us what to post about, mr tww thread policeman

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 4:10 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 4:10:20 PM

Quote :

"do we really want to turn this into a "post videos from sporting event fighting incidents" seriously? really? well, you have fun with that then"

You go ahead and find you some basketball fight videos, I know there are some.

Because I know there are some thugs who play basketball.

I also know that there are at least that many thugs who play hockey.

2/23/2007 4:13:33 PM

listen you can waste your time debating this

AGAIN

but fighting in hockey isnt going to go away. and as long as shit goes down like in vegas during the all-star weekend, people are going to see NBA players as thugs. just the way its going to be.

2/23/2007 4:13:56 PM

^well i sadly agree that the overall perception by non-fans will probably not change much for the better (for either sport i guess)_

but hell, almost everything we discuss on tww is a waste of time, come on now

2/23/2007 4:15:32 PM

I guess you're right.

And people will continue to not watch hockey. just the way its going to be.

2/23/2007 4:16:12 PM

lol

2/23/2007 4:16:58 PM

lindy ruff should not be suspended, the hit was late and was on the captain of the team in our building, ottawa's coach is stupid for sending in his best players after that happened...what would laviolette do if brindamour was hit late by a player of the opposing team...he would send in his goons to beat the shit out of the team that did it...

2/23/2007 5:02:43 PM

^ The Canes don't have goons.

2/23/2007 5:17:56 PM

Quote :

"BTW I don't think you'll find too many hockey fans who don't think Todd Bertuzzi is a thug. "

the reason fights in the nba are considered "thugish" is because of the image they adapt, follow, and portray. it's the hip hop, urban, street-cred image. it's why they all talk like rappers, and a lot come from the hood. it's because basketball is synonymous with urban and hip hop, which is synonymous with crime. and don't say it isn't, because true hip hop died out in the early 80s. this bullshit gangster thug rap is absolute garbage. anyway, that is why nba fights are considered thugish, because they are simply continuing to do what they did before the nba. if you want more proof, consider the # of nba players who have been arrested for drugs, guns, crimes, rape, car theft and compare that to the nhl.

2/23/2007 5:18:00 PM

Quote :

"they all talk like rappers"

Quote :

"true hip hop died out in the early 80s"

just stfu

^by the way do you consider Todd Bertuzzi a thug?

or would you rather say being a thug is "talking like a rapper" instead of "paralyzing a man's spinal cord"

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 5:22 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 5:19:32 PM

also allow me to clarify that nba players do not represent at all the majority of black people.

and yes true hip hop died out a long time ago idiot

and i misspoke when i said "they all" so i do appologize for that

2/23/2007 5:21:55 PM

true hip hop huh? wanna be any more specific aside of saying it died in the early 80s?

like grand master flash's social commentaries in 1982...was it dead yet in 82?

ps do you consider bertuzzi a thug?

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 5:23 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 5:22:36 PM

Quote :

"The main historical eras of hip hop are the old school hip hop era (1970 to 1985), which spanned from the beginning of hip hop until its emergence into the mainstream, and the golden age hip hop era (1985 to 1993), which consolidated the sounds of the East Coast and the West Coast and transitioned into the modern era with the rise of gangsta rap and G-funk, created by the West Coast. The years after 1993 contain the hardcore hip hop, bling, and underground genres, which largely define the modern era. Hip hop arose during the 1970s at block parties in New York City, at which the DJs began isolating the percussion breaks to hit funk, soul, R&B and disco songs. These songs were based on – "breakbeat" DJing. Early hip hop rhythms and (sampled) riffs were derived essentially from funk music. Some funk songs, such as James Brown's "Payback" (1974) are clearly predicting hip hop music and also speaking over the music was used extensively in funk, most notably on records produced by George Clinton. As hip hop became popular, performers began speaking while the music played, and became known as MCs or emcees. In 1979, the first commercially issued hip hop recordings were released: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang which became a Top 40 hit on the U.S. Billboard pop singles chart. 'Rapper' in reference to music was actually coined by this song. Some historians cite King Tim III (Personality Jock) by the Fatback Band to be the first commercially released hip hop recording but they were a funk and disco group. During the 1980s, hip hop began to diversify and develop into a more complex form. At the same time, more sophisticated techniques were developed, including scratching, and electronic recording. In the late 1980s, a number of new hip hop styles and subgenres began appearing as the genre gained popularity. Hip hop musicians collaborated with rock bands and spread out into the genres of conscious hip hop, jazz-rap and gangsta rap. In the 1990s, a prolonged confrontation between West Coast gangsta rappers and the resurging East Coast began. It centered around Tupac Shakur and The Notorious B.I.G. and led to both of their deaths, in 1996 and 1997 respectively. In 1996, Cleveland-based rap group Bone Thugs-N-Harmony tied The Beatles' 32-year-old record for fastest-rising single with "Tha Crossroads," and in 2000, Scottish-American White rapper Eminem's The Marshall Mathers LP sold over nine million copies and won a Grammy Award."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music

Quote :

"The late 1990s saw the rise in popularity of the "bling-bling" lifestyle in rap music, focusing on symbols of wealth and status like money, jewelry, cars, and clothing. Although references to wealth have existed since the birth of hip hop, the new, intensified "bling-bling" culture has its immediate roots in the enormously commercially successful late-to-mid nineties work (specifically, music videos) of Puff Daddy and Bad Boy Records as well as Master P's No Limit Records. However, the term was coined in 1999 (see 1999 in music) by Cash Money Records artist Lil' Wayne on B.G.'s hit single "Bling-Bling", and the Cash Money roster were perhaps the epitome of the "bling-bling" lifestyle and attitude. Though many rappers, mostly gangsta rappers, unapologetically pursue and celebrate bling-bling, others, mostly artists outside of the hip hop mainstream, have expressly criticized the idealized pursuit of bling-bling as being materialistic."

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 5:27 PM. Reason : more]

Quote :

"The widespread success of hip hop ? specifically gangsta rap ? has also had a significant social impact on the demeanor of modern youth. The sometimes egotistic attitudes often portrayed in the lyrics and videos of certain hip hop artists have repeatedly shown negative effects on some of their idolizing fans. While the attitudes of specific artists certainly do not represent the rest of the hip hop community, and the effect of lyrical content on youths who are part of the hip hop culture is debatable, very often such youths adopt the much glamorized "gangsta" persona while not being members of any gang. Often these personas incite anti-social behavior such as peer harassment, neglect towards education, rejection of authority, and petty crimes such as vandalism. An evident pseudo-gangsta sub-culture has risen amongst North American youth. For many years rap music has included product placement for cars, alcoholic drinks, clothing and other products. Rappers will discuss at length the cars they drive and the drinks they consume and glorify the excess, decadence and luxury."

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 5:28 PM. Reason : one more]

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 5:28 PM. Reason : jank]

2/23/2007 5:26:48 PM

how come nothing you just quoted addresses:

Quote :

"true hip hop died out in the early 80s"

and i dont need a wikipedia entry to tell me a bunch of stuff i already know

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 5:30 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 5:29:27 PM

i thought the paragraphs were self explanatory when it stated that the hip hop genre transformed into that modern gangster rap stuff

and now that you're picking apart one little sentence it's obvious you have nothing to say


and yes, bertuzzi's action was very thuggish

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 5:31 PM. Reason : yo thug nigga gangster kill ]

2/23/2007 5:30:41 PM

oh and just to finally speak of my point

1983 was when ice t first put out his tracks Cold Winter Madness" and "Body Rock/Killers" which are considered some of the first West Coast gangster raps.

http://www.b-boys.com/classic/hiphoptimeline.html

2/23/2007 5:34:30 PM