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The Coz
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Your neighborhood failed at life, bro!

1/26/2022 1:51:03 PM

JayMCnasty
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So why isn't there free widespread antibody testing so that we can have a better idea of the immunity we have built up, or should we just keep getting jabs to drive revenue for big pharma?

1/26/2022 1:53:50 PM

Bullet
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Who do you think would develop the antibody testing? And wouldn't you have to continually do that with new variants?

1/26/2022 1:54:58 PM

UJustWait84
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Despite being boosted and already having OG COVID in late 2019, I managed to still catch omicron. I tested positive Friday and today is the first time I've felt like I'm actually starting to feel like I'm recovering/getting healthy again, but I have just been hosting remote classes and trying my best to stay sane being trapped inside.

Originally, I assumed it was just a bad cold because the only symptoms I had was a random cough and post nasal drip, but I lucked out when I had access to a rapid test (they've been pretty much impossible to find since Xmas where I live) and sure it enough, it popped positive pretty much immediately. Had I NOT tested, I would've just gone about my business, wearing an N95 in public, assuming it would go away in a day or two-- presumably infecting people left and right. Spouse tested negative Friday evening and hasn't had any symptoms, so that's been a plus. I don't plan on retesting until this weekend, and I think it's nuts the CDC says 5 days is all you need for isolation/quarantining.

I don't think calling it 'mild' is really the best way of describing it. The fatigue/brain fog and coughing spells that erupt and disappear as soon as they came are actually very unpleasant. I haven't once considered going to the hospital for breathing treatments like I did my first go around (actually, I had to go TWICE), but it's a serious illness that I'm convinced was mitigated with vaccines and prior exposure. People who call it 'mild' are honestly just lucky. It's like calling a Thai chili pepper mild when comparing it to a Carolina reaper pepper-- uh sure, it's real mild if you look at it that way... It fucking sucks, and I hope this is the last time I ever have to deal with it.

Also, I'll take vaccine side effects 1000x over 'mild' omicron. Fuck this stupid virus and anyone who still thinks it's no big deal.

1/26/2022 1:56:29 PM

JayMCnasty
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Quote :
"Who do you think would develop the antibody testing? And wouldn't you have to continually do that with new variants?"


You mean like we have to do with booster shots?

1/26/2022 1:58:16 PM

TreeTwista10
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"Originally, I assumed it was just a bad cold"


I guess it's human nature to think this way, if you're been alive 30+ years and COVID has only been a thing to worry about for maybe 2 years, but this still seems weird to me. "I think I just have a cold" during the middle of a pandemic. I mean, there is a pretty good chance it's COVID!

Just a general observation

1/26/2022 1:59:59 PM

JayMCnasty
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Also, how the fuck are we 2 years into this thing and just now getting free testing kits. What an absolute joke. 6 months ago you had to suck off a CVS employee to get a kit for $20

1/26/2022 2:02:30 PM

UJustWait84
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^^ I think I did at least a half a dozen PCR tests between Thanksgiving and NYE-- all came back negative, and I definitely gathered with people (who also either did rapid/PCR tests), so I suppose it was naive of me to think that I wasn't going to catch it sooner, since basically everyone I know either got it around Xmas or NYE. I don't feel 'bad' about being careful and taking this thing seriously since it started, but I def feel humbled and taken down a bit from my high horse of being triple vaxxed thinking I'd either get an asymptomatic infection, or none at all.

I've had some pretty bouts of food poisoning, and the flu a few times, but omicron is way shittier and lasts a lot longer. At least in my case.

1/26/2022 2:11:46 PM

The Coz
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I think this whole experience shows how little patience most people have anymore.

OMG, I had to get two shots AND a booster!

I looked at my childhood immunization record, and I had FIVE (5) doses of oral polio vaccine between ages 0 and 6. What a drag! The vaccine clearly doesn't work if I had to get five doses! Not worth the effort. I'll take my chances with paralysis.

And also the expectation that the first guidance based on the best available science and situational circumstance at the time be optimal and unchanging. If guidance changes over time, it clearly means all scientists are lying assholes in the pocket of big pharma!

How about if people were to approach the pandemic as rational adult human beings instead of impatient crying babies?

Here's what's going to happen. The virus will become endemic at a mostly mild and manageable level. But if your number is up, it will still kill you or someone you love. There will be an annual combination mRNA vaccine for influenza and coronavirus which will be tuned each year according to the dominant strains in the opposing hemisphere winter. So as for having to be vaccinated all the time, it's really going to be no different than the responsible adult should already have been doing pre-COVID. Not that complicated.

1/26/2022 2:13:08 PM

UJustWait84
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^ I got my booster back in October, and I'll probably be mandated by work to get a 4th shot in March or late Spring, and perhaps a 5th in the Fall!

I've just resigned myself to the fact that the vaccine only fucked me up the first go around, and even still, 36 hours of moderate discomfort>>>>>> 7-10+ days battling an infection that can easily kill you if you're unlucky or have a weakened immune system.

1/26/2022 2:22:55 PM

Bullet
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"You mean like we have to do with booster shots?"


Umm, yes, exacatly? You were making it sound like if we just started doing antibody testing then we wouldn't have to keep getting jabbed and giving money to big pharma. but my point that that you'd have to do the same thing with antibody testing.

Quote :
"I don't know man, I feel like with the rapid nature of the spread for omicron, it's almost a waste of time. If the larger population is like my neighborhood, then we've all already been exposed."


I mean, if your entire neighborhood got it, it sounds like yall weren't being very careful. I know this omicron is spreading like wildfire, and I know a lot of people who have gotten it. But I still know a lot more people who haven't gotten it (or at least haven't been symtompatic)

1/26/2022 2:42:10 PM

The Coz
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^^Yes, because we're still in the pandemic rather than the endemic stage. When there is massive uncontrolled spread, you get new variants that sweep the globe. Again, patience is key. Unified action would help, but forget that I guess.

1/26/2022 2:44:51 PM

justinh524
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"Despite being boosted and already having OG COVID in late 2019, "


Did an actual doctor diagnose you with covid in 2019 or are you self diagnosing in hindsight?

1/26/2022 2:57:04 PM

UJustWait84
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"it sounds like yall weren't being very careful"


I wouldn't necessarily make this assumption, but I get what you're saying. I thought I was being careful by testing every single time prior to a gathering where I knew the people I was gathering indoors with people who were boosted/testing and using the same strategies I used (n95 indoors in public settings, but the Bay Area never really dropped indoor masks anyway). That strategy seemingly worked over the holidays when I never got sick, yet somehow I wound up catching it in late January, despite not having anyone I've been in contact with in the last 2 weeks catching it. I honestly think I got it from the lobby elevator in my building when I decided to just throw on a kn95 to check the mail, as opposed to the N95 I wear out shopping, but who TF knows?

1/26/2022 2:59:29 PM

TreeTwista10
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I'm no expert, but I think you probably caught it at some gathering with other people, as opposed to deciding to check the mail while wearing a mask

1/26/2022 3:02:02 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"Did an actual doctor diagnose you with covid in 2019 or are you self diagnosing in hindsight?
"


I've already explained this before in other threads, but I live in the Bay Area and my symptoms were identical to COVID and was known there were cases in California in late 2019.
It began with a 103.1 fever that lasted for several days, had to go to the ER twice for breathing treatments, tested negative for influenza A/B, pneumonia, etc. They gave me a Zpak/prednisone/albuterol inhaler because they thought it was asthma related (I had it as a kid, but mostly outgrew it).

I did an antibody test in April of 2020 and it first came back inconclusive, and then negative. I've since developed gout, which apparently others have gotten too as a symptom of long COVID, so that's a been a real treat trying to manage with diet/lifestyle/medication.

The first vaccine fucked me up for 36 hours-- felt identical to COVID minus the cough, and now having tested positive for Omicron, I "know" that it's the exact same illness.

But no, I never got an official diagnosis of COVID 19 in December of 2019, so I guess I'm just imagining I had it everything I've gone through has been a total a coincidence. Also rapid tests often produce false positives, so maybe it's just been allergies this whole time!

Quote :
"I'm no expert, but I think you probably caught it at some gathering with other people, as opposed to deciding to check the mail while wearing a mask"


We didn't see anyone for NYE and have been staying home and laying low. We're moving down the street next week and cases here really started surging, so we've mostly just been home, aside from running errands. But you're right, you're no expert



[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 3:10 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2022 3:07:16 PM

justinh524
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Well i am just a little suspicious since everyone and their brother diagnosed themselves with having gotten covid in the fall/winter of 2019 on social media. But yeah that sounds terrible.

So you're saying you had no human contact outside of your household since prior to new years eve until the time you caught da 'cron? (and also the same for the other members of your household)

1/26/2022 3:09:19 PM

UJustWait84
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^ I mean a bunch of people probably DID have it. It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It was the closest to dying from an illness I've experienced as an adult, and I definitely think it made me highly alarmed/concerned/cautious about it from the beginning, which I see as a positive, overall.

Tbh I'd give omicron like a 3.5/10 overall, but yesterday and Monday felt more like a 4 or 5, and today it's more like a 1 or 2.

^ believe it or not, a lot of friends flat out refused to socialize after/during the holidays, and January is probably the most dead/boring time of year in the Bay Area anyway. I never said no human contact whatsoever; I just said we've laid low and hung out at home because we're getting ready to move. It could have also been the door dash order I picked up on Monday. It could have been going to COSTCO the prior Saturday. I really don't know why people think the ONLY way of catching is being in large group settings only.

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 3:19 PM. Reason : it doesn't matter-- I got it, and it sucks.]

1/26/2022 3:14:32 PM

TreeTwista10
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" a gathering where I knew the people I was gathering indoors with people who were boosted/testing and using the same strategies I used"


ah yes, "I know all my friends are diligent about everything 100% of the time"

I'm sure there was just omicron residue on your mailbox and that's how you caught it

1/26/2022 3:15:05 PM

UJustWait84
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^ I think A LOT of people lulled themselves into a false sense of security with tests- myself included! Also, maybe some of my friends are liars, or their family members are?

But really what's so hard to believe about catching it from a lobby elevator? I bet it's more likely than getting gonorrhea from a tractor seat.

1/26/2022 3:23:06 PM

TreeTwista10
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I guess if it's an elevator full of lots of people, some of them without masks, and the elevator makes a lot of stops so that you're in that environment for an extended period of time, that you could catch covid. But you made it sound like you just popped downstairs to check the mail and decided to wear a mask that's pretty effective as opposed to one that's 95% effective. Rather than possibly catching it at large indoor gatherings. Maybe someone at the gathering did catch COVID but you aren't aware? Either way, sucks that you got it.

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 3:37 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2022 3:36:25 PM

UJustWait84
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Yeah, I guess I should mention that a bunch of people in my complex don't bother wearing masks in common areas/elevators/mail room and some unites host large indoor gatherings on the weekends, etc. Just one of the many reasons we're moving out and down the street (the primary being endless construction/parking issues). Some of these people are obviously young and perhaps just visiting people in the building, but I've definitely seen some of the same damn maskless faces over the past 2 years of living here, and it's easier just to ignore these idiots than to confront them.

TBH, I think I'm pretty lucky, all things considered. Having COVID when all you're doing is going over the syllabus is way better than the middle or end of the semester when the grading piles up.

I just think the timing is weird. Maybe I had it for 7-10 days and finally tested positive at the peak last Friday, but I waited 3 days to test from when my symptoms started appearing, so I guess I'll never really know. And also, it's not like I've asked every single person I knew if they were positive, nor told every single person, either.

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 3:47 PM. Reason : An omicron mystery!]

1/26/2022 3:44:22 PM

justinh524
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Quote :
"I mean a bunch of people probably DID have it"


A bunch? No. A few? Yes. Most people probably just had normal ass fucking colds and were then like WELL I HAD COVID AND IT WAS FINE

1/26/2022 3:47:56 PM

thegoodlife3
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you sure are confident considering there was no way of testing to know for sure between the end of 2019-April of 2020

we’re sure we had it within that window, as are a lot of others in our circle. there is a zero percent chance that our small circle in the triangle are the only ones who had it during then.

1/26/2022 3:55:25 PM

UJustWait84
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I mostly just meant Californians-- not just people in Iowa or wherever that never leave their small hometowns. [/snob]

And unless they had the out of control fever and needed breathing treatments/almost died I would be skeptical as well.

My 50 y/o cousin (who also lives in the Bay) caught it in very early March 2020 from a work conference and was on the vent for quite a while and he's very lucky to be alive. It's so sad because he was in such great health (into martial arts and coached his teenage daughter) and now he's constantly winded.

1/26/2022 3:59:54 PM

Bullet
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How are you confidently sure you had it?

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 4:00 PM. Reason : ^^]

1/26/2022 4:00:05 PM

JayMCnasty
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Quote :
"Umm, yes, exacatly? You were making it sound like if we just started doing antibody testing then we wouldn't have to keep getting jabbed and giving money to big pharma. but my point that that you'd have to do the same thing with antibody testing."


Fair enough, either way they get paid. I guess it just seems sensible to me to develop some sort of quick test that can show some sort of level of protection against certain variants that we have. I saw some 60 minutes special where this lady didn't develop any antibodies until she had 5 different sets of jabs from the 3 big manufacturers. If some people need more than others, wouldn't this be good information to have in order to stop the spread?

1/26/2022 4:03:09 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^ these things called symptoms

losing taste and smell isn’t a common symptom of colds/the flu

and knowing people who were close to calling 911 because they couldn’t breath. something that isn’t a common symptom of a cold/the flu

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 4:04 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2022 4:03:35 PM

UJustWait84
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Oh FWIW, I never lost my sense of taste/smell either time. Guess I never actually had COVID-- just a cold!

See how this works?

1/26/2022 4:06:03 PM

Bullet
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Quote :
"^^ these things called symptoms"


No reason to get defensive and snide, i was just asking how you were sure

1/26/2022 4:11:58 PM

UJustWait84
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^It gets a little annoying trying to argue with people (who presumably didn't have COVID or had a weak case) trying to convince them that you had it, when you, yourself, are the one that actually experienced it.

1/26/2022 4:14:59 PM

justinh524
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You may have very well not had covid in 2019. There is no way to tell now. Comparing how you felt then to how you felt with the omicron variant is not anything close to a diagnosis. There are countless agents that could cause those same symptoms. Not discounting your experiences with this shit, just saying that you feeling similarly crappy does not mean both were covid.

Also my original comment about people self-diagnosing was more about all the dumb shit i saw in March 2020 that said things like "did you have a month-long cold in Oct/Nov/Dec and it wouldn't go away? Well you prob had covid!!!!" that were all over social media and completely baseless. That was part of the reason i quit facebook finally. In your cases, yeah you probably had covid, but there's no definitive way of saying you did.

1/26/2022 4:15:57 PM

UJustWait84
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Who are you actually trying to convince- me, or yourself?

I don't need to be convinced-- I fucking went through it. TWICE now. The first time wasn't 'crappy'-- it was nearly life ending.

https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/covid-may-have-been-in-la-as-early-as-december-2019

Your opinion on whether or not I experienced something I legitimately experienced is a really lame form of gaslighting, and I'm kinda wondering why you're choosing such a weird hill to die on...

Like if a woman miscarries but never had a pregnancy test, you'd tell her "well, there's no way of being able to know if you were actually pregnant, let alone miscarried, since you never took a test and you sound like you're self-diagnosing. It could have just been a bad case of cramps"? FOH dude.



[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 4:32 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2022 4:18:42 PM

Bullet
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Quote :
"Your opinion on whether or not I experienced something I legitimately experienced is a really lame form of gaslightin"


He's not saying you didn't experience something. He's saying there's no way for you to positively (scientifically) know it was Covid



[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 4:34 PM. Reason : and no, it's not like a misscarriage.]

1/26/2022 4:32:59 PM

UJustWait84
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I teach logical fallacies for a living, so the "burden of proof" one is pretty easy to spot. I'm battling omicron, so you can go Google if you'd like.

1/26/2022 4:36:31 PM

Bullet
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You seriously teach logical fallacy for a living? That's baffling. Because it seems that exactly what you're doing, a correlation/causation fallcy "I felt this way this time and was positive, and i felt similar that last time, so it has to be the same thing (with no scientific proof)"

(at least you don't teach science)

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 4:48 PM. Reason : and please know i'm not saying you didn't have it, there's just no way to positively know]

1/26/2022 4:45:08 PM

UJustWait84
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I am not the one demanding "proof"-- he's saying it doesn't/cannot exist, without being able to prove it either

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 4:48 PM. Reason : symptoms count as "proof" btw-- you just want to move the goal posts]

1/26/2022 4:47:25 PM

rwoody
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Wow this thread blew up

1/26/2022 5:00:01 PM

Bullet
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Are you serious? Symptoms do not count as "proof". Some of the symptoms are the same symptoms for literally hundreds/thousdands of other conditions and diseases.

My parents were pretty sick for a few weeks. They never got tested. They were convinced it was just the flu because it was similar symptoms to flus in the past. By their logic, that was their "proof" that they didn't have Covid. But that is a logical fallacy. I'm pretty sure they did have it, but there's no way to know (or prove it) now.

(Just because you may have symptoms of some specific typ of cancer, that's not "proof" that you have that cancer. It could literally be hundreds of other things)

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 5:08 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2022 5:04:47 PM

JayMCnasty
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Maybe if we had some fucking antiviral pills peoples symptoms wouldn't be so shitty. Pretty unreal how India already has access to them and we don't.

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 5:10 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2022 5:06:28 PM

rwoody
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I realllly hate to defend UJW but what difference does it make if he can prove it or not. "I'm fairly confident I had covid" and "I was officially diagnosed with covid" are essentially the same thing in context, especially with the added details. Maybe he's wrong but who cares? It doesn't seem like he used his previous sickness as an excuse to be less careful.

1/26/2022 5:25:20 PM

Bullet
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I mean, you're right, it's silly. But none the less;

Quote :
" "I'm fairly confident I had covid" and "I was officially diagnosed with covid" are essentially the same thing in context"


He didn't say he was "fairly confident", he said he was certain, and that's what I take issue with

How so? If someone pees a lot, is often thirsty, and has dry skin, is it the same to say "I'm confident I have diabetes" essentially the same as "I was officially diagnosed with diabetes"?



[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 5:46 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2022 5:42:37 PM

UJustWait84
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^^ thanks? I never once claimed I could prove with scientific validity/absolutely certainty I had a confirmed case of COVID in 2019-- I freely admit that I don't have any "proof" other than my own experience, which just so happens to coincide with scientific research that WAS done (read the link I posted), and the same symptoms. I could have popped a false positive and be imagining this whole incident-- just like the antibody test could have been too primitive, or maybe my antibodies had faded enough from Dec to April.

And I'm not really not all that interested in trying to convince anyone one way or or another I had it-- a lot of things in life you go through (relationship issues, starting a new job, experiencing a loss, etc) don't have a scientific burden of proof that needs to be met to convince others you went through it. People who understand and have basic empathy say, "Gee that sucks, sorry you dealt with it" Not, "Well, are you suurrrrre you actually experienced what you claimed? Because you don't have scientific proof"

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 5:46 PM. Reason : not sure why it's hard to agree with me. I think I've been pretty reasonable...]

1/26/2022 5:45:31 PM

Bullet
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gee that sucks that you had it. i'm not dismissing your suffering at all. and i said numerous times that I'm in no way arguing you didn't have it.

1/26/2022 5:47:26 PM

rwoody
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^^you're welcome?

1/26/2022 6:15:56 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"the same to say "I'm confident I have diabetes" essentially the same as "I was officially diagnosed with diabetes"?"


I mean, no? Because having diabetes requires treatments that you can't really guess at? Itd be more like a saying "I had the flu a few months ago" without going to the Dr. First of all the symptoms of the flu and a cold are usually different enough to notice, second what if they were wrong and it was a cold, who cares, how does it impact the story? If someone told you they had the flu would you say "are you SURE it was the flu" or "ah dang that sucks"

1/26/2022 6:20:44 PM

UJustWait84
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My miscarriage analogy may have made y'all feel a bit uncomfortable, but it's not half bad. Plenty of women I know have had multiple miscarriages and it's not like I've ever been "well did you have a pregnancy test for each one?? Without testing first and finding fetal tissue later, you're just guessing."

Like who the fuck would ask that, unless they're trying to cast doubt on the woman's experience and trivialize it? I get that it's a purposefully overly dramatic comparison, but my point that it's irritating/annoying dealing with people who say obvious shit like "well you'll never be 100% certain it was COVID in 2019"-- it changes nothing. Yeah, I know I'll never be able to "prove" I scientifically had it, but why do you need the proof anyway?

Also, the diabetes analogy isn't as good because we're talking about a VIRUS that is/was/continues to evolve change and testing has been problematic from the get-go, not a chronic illness that may will likely never "go away" on its own. The Flu example was better tbh, but I already told you I tested negative for Influenza A/B.





[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 6:38 PM. Reason : but maybe those flu tests were false negatives!!!]

1/26/2022 6:31:40 PM

TreeTwista10
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It sounds like UJW didn't have any loss of taste or smell. But for the people who think they had COVID back in late 19/early 20, who did have a loss of taste and/or smell at the time, why would you not think they had COVID? Do normal colds or flus have loss of smell/taste as symptoms?

1/26/2022 6:35:38 PM

UJustWait84
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I can't scientifically be certain I didn't lose my taste of smell. I mean maybe my sense of smell is terrible, so I'm just not noticing it when it gets even worse.

And really, can any of us be certain of ANYTHING??!!???

1/26/2022 6:37:47 PM

rwoody
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UJW can't lose his sense of taste, he likes the Warriors so it's clear he has none

[Edited on January 26, 2022 at 6:38 PM. Reason : SET EM UPPPPP]

1/26/2022 6:38:28 PM

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