.

[Edited on January 20, 2012 at 6:55 PM. Reason : dubya post]

1/20/2012 6:55:00 PM

Quote :

"Obama actually forced them to take actions that resulted in their returning to profitability."

yeah, like giving gifts to his UAW union buddies and fucking over people who actual legitimate and LEGAL claim to automaker debt.

Quote :

"I know, it's hard for you to swallow, because it would require conceding that a "community organizer" was able to run a company more efficiently and achieve better results than it's private management was able to muster over the better part of a decade."

bull. fucking. shit. you give me that much money and I guaran-dam-tee you I will create more cars today than I did yesterday.

Quote :

"Citation please?"

really? you want me to cite how TARP fucking worked. REALLY? come on

Quote :

"I've already shown that every goddamn thing you've posted about the bank bailouts have been utter horseshit,"

except, you haven't. you've done the opposite. Everything I have said has been proven 100% true. down to the bogus Treasury numbers. but, hey, keep cherry picking statistics and not including actual costs in your analysis and keep being pleasantly surprised at how rosey it looks to you. oh, and tell us more about "moral hazard". even better, tell us more about how the almighty Treasury department, on whom your entire argument relied, (because every time anyone took issue with your numbers, your response was "I guess you know more than the Treasury Dept!), correctly projected that Fannie and Freddie would need no more bailout money. oh, wait...

[Edited on January 20, 2012 at 9:34 PM. Reason : ]

1/20/2012 9:16:44 PM

There is simply no point in arguing with a dumbass liberal like Shrike who has no concept at all about economics.

Hurrrrr, look, hurrrrrrr...they are making cars again, they are making money. Hurrrrr, other companies wouldn't have stepped in to fill that supply void...hurrr, economics....derrrpppp what the fuck is that....bllrurrurhghghghgh

1/20/2012 9:36:47 PM

^,^^I'll take that as a concession. Thanks for playing.

1/21/2012 3:22:10 PM

Quote :

"Does anyone still want to argue that the auto bailouts were not only unnecessary, but a failure as well?"

I would strongly argue it was unnecessary. GM as a company would have reopened and been operated far more profitably had they not been bailed out. The new owners would have been free of both the union, dealerships, the government, and been saddled with far less debt than it is currently. I believe the factories would have been idle for quite a bit longer, but they are immovable, and the demand exists for them to operate profitably. As such, I am confident someone would have figure out how to do it.

As for the "failure" part, a bailout is by definition a failure, even if the government makes a fortune on the deal. But, last I read in the news, GM had been bailed out at a significant loss after all the direct and indirect subsidies thrown at GM (and only GM+Chrysler) were taken into account.

[Edited on January 21, 2012 at 4:12 PM. Reason : .,.]

1/21/2012 4:10:55 PM

+1 ^^ However, factories are movable and GM could have relocated to business friendly states and kept the unions out. Additionally, these factories would be more efficient and the tooling more flexible to allow for faster change-out when new models or upgrades need to be manufactured.

1/22/2012 5:55:53 PM

^^ you're looking at the trees but you can't see the forest.

1/22/2012 6:35:12 PM

I see you typed words yet said nothing.

1/22/2012 7:10:42 PM

Joe Biden somewhat called the Giants beating the 49ers so, uh, +1 credibility I guess.

1/22/2012 10:40:06 PM

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politicsnorthwest/2017313164_senate_has_votes_needed_to_pas.html

Quote :

"Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, D-Camano Island, said she supports gay marriage legislation in the Senate -- giving proponents the 25 votes needed for passage. The state House already has enough lawmakers in support of the measure to approve it. Gov. Chris Gregoire backs the bill, as well."

Granted, Obama isn't personally endorsing legislation to legalize gay marriage, but the fact that his administration is choosing not to defend DOMA in court is certainly helping the dominoes fall.

[Edited on January 23, 2012 at 3:54 PM. Reason : :]

1/23/2012 3:53:58 PM

Quote :

"31 U.S.C 1105(a): On or after the first Monday in January but not later than the first Monday in February of each year, the President shall submit a budget of the United States Government for the following fiscal year. Each budget shall include a budget message and summary and supporting information."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/jan/23/white-house-miss-budget-deadline-third-year/

Quote :

"The White House told Congress on Monday that its budget will be late this year, meaning President Obama once again will miss the deadline set in law. Congressional officials said the president now will send up his budget on Feb. 13, which is a week later than the usual date. The law requires the budget be sent by the first Monday in February. Late budgets are common in the first year of a presidency, but this move, in Mr. Obama's fourth year, drew fire from Congress. Rep. Paul Ryan, chairman of the House Budget Committee, called it an "abdication of leadership." Mr. Obama missed the mark in 2009 and 2011, though he was on time with his 2010 budget."

The guy has played more golf than Tiger Woods since taking office, but can't submit a budget on time.

If it tells you anything, it tells you that the Federal Government has too much power (time it takes to write a budget), and the President sucks at his job.

1/23/2012 6:28:48 PM

There are a million legitimate reasons to criticize Obama, and you consistently choose to masturbate over the most trivial of issues. Good job.

1/23/2012 6:38:40 PM

You only think it's trivial because you have Os cock stuck so far down your throat he takes pisses out your ass.

1/23/2012 6:49:28 PM

Pretty sure I've been very vocal about my disapproval of MANY of Obama's actions. Especially of late.

But if you need to build up a caricature of me so that you can tear it down, have at it, hoss.

1/23/2012 6:54:51 PM

You have a man crush on him and all liberals.

The budget is kind of a big deal.

[Edited on January 23, 2012 at 7:34 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2012 7:33:35 PM

not to everybody, apparently

25% success rate of budget deadline is not a success rate

1/23/2012 7:37:57 PM

Whenever i see an interview with Kathleen Sebelius, something about her rubs me the wrong way...

1/23/2012 11:22:48 PM

Obama prosecutes whistle-blower that exposed American torture.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/former-cia-officer-charged-in-leaks/2012/01/23/gIQA3AhTLQ_story.html

1/24/2012 10:00:24 AM

^ Greenwald puts a good perspective on that as well

Quote :

"What’s most notable here is that this is now the sixth prosecution by the Obama administration of an accused leaker, and all six have been charged under the draconian, World-War-I era Espionage Act. As EFF’s Trevor Timm put it yesterday: this is the “6th time under Obama someone is charged with Espionage for leaking to a journalist. Before Obama: only 3 cases in history.”"

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/24/rules_of_american_justice_a_tale_of_three_cases/



Killing 24 Iraqi civilians will get you a demotion:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/01/201212423947590252.html


So the lesson is this:

If you commit war crimes, you are protected.

If you expose war crimes, you get put in jail.


We have a president and an administration that is covering up war crimes and prosecuting whistleblowers.


But hey, let's all bitch about recess appointments and budget delays and games of golf! Bonus points if you can label him a far-left liberal despite his overwhelming record of shitting all over civil liberties and his massive pro-business and pro-financial industry record.

[Edited on January 25, 2012 at 2:50 AM. Reason : ]

1/25/2012 2:33:43 AM

romney vs obama / biden in charitable donations.

laughable.

1/25/2012 1:47:40 PM

^^ the republicans in congress are complicit with atrocities, and are content quibbling over 2-3% of taxes for the aloof rich.

1/25/2012 7:22:09 PM

Obama is making COMPLETELY the wrong move in regards to public spying, attacking whistleblowers, and auctioning off indiviual liberty.

1/25/2012 10:40:49 PM

^ yeah, it's a little baffling considering his rhetoric during the campaign. It's going to be hard for the GOP to credibility paint him as weak on terrorism though, and he's clearly willing to milk the Bin Laden thing (which i found distasteful) based on the SOTU.

on an unrelated note...

Quote :

"And Brewer said that, when she asked the president if he had actually read her book, he responded that he "read the excerpt'' and that "he didn't feel that I had treated him cordially.'' The conversation did not get much farther. "I said I was sorry he felt that way but I didn't get my sentence finished,'' she said. And a pool report from reporters allowed on the tarmac said that, after it appeared the two were talking over each other, the president walked away from her while they were still talking. "

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/arizona/politics/article_d2add8a4-47c3-11e1-976e-0019bb2963f4.html

lol at bolded part...

maybe he's started doing coke again, and is getting too aggressive with things?

1/25/2012 10:46:04 PM

It's not baffling, at all. The duplicity is a deliberate act designed to keep his base in line. Admit it, if G. Dubbles were killing American citizens without trial, arresting whistleblowers, increasing drone strikes over sovereign nations, and signing legislation that would allow for the indefinite detention of American citizens and denying them the right to due process, you wouldn't use words like "baffling."

1/25/2012 11:46:54 PM

2012 Democratic National Convention = 1968 Democratic National Convention

Same crooks, same police brutality, same hypocrisy.

Quote :

"That night, NBC News had been switching back and forth between the demonstrators being beaten by the police to the festivities over Humphrey’s victory in the convention hall.[25] It was under the cameras of the convention center, for all of America to see. It was clear that the Democratic party was sorely divided."

[Edited on January 26, 2012 at 12:00 AM. Reason : .]

1/25/2012 11:57:31 PM

I wouldn't find it baffling for the guy who came up with axis of evil to glorify senseless violence.

I do find it baffling that the guy who would negotiate with Iran and wanted tonshut down gitmo would do so.

but what is the option? Ron Paul is the only candidate with a true progressive foreign policy, but he has other issues and isn't viable anyway.

politically, it doesn't make sense to harp on it when the republicans don't care, and there aren't enough democrats that do care.

1/26/2012 12:02:19 AM

then hold his fucking feet to the fire.

obama has demonstrated that he will only respond to pressure. and right now, he only get's pressure from the far-right, and compromises with them every time.

quit supporting him, and pull him back to the left.

1/26/2012 12:10:14 AM

Quote :

"2012 Democratic National Convention = 1968 Democratic National Convention"

Funny you should bring that up, because that's exactly how this essay begins: http://www.zcommunications.org/note-to-the-left-obama-hates-you-by-paul-street

And how fitting will it be that it is going to be held in BANK OF AMERICA stadium.

[Edited on January 26, 2012 at 12:24 AM. Reason : ]

1/26/2012 12:12:15 AM

They're still inviting as many people as they can to the convention, but they'll change their minds eventually and have it in a more private location once they see the level of unrest

1/26/2012 12:33:04 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/former-cia-officer-charged-in-leaks/2012/01/23/gIQA3AhTLQ_story.html

he couldn't even keep his promises about transparent government... and they're fucking free!

1/26/2012 1:08:54 AM

^To me this was more fucked up: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/wife-of-alleged-cia-leaker-resigns-from-agency/2012/01/24/gIQAxKFlOQ_story.html?hpid=z4

Quote :

"Two sources in direct contact with the Kiriakous said that Heather had submitted her resignation under pressure from superiors at the CIA. She had been on maternity leave in recent months. Neither she nor John Kiriakou returned a phone message left at their home. “They told her to come in and resign,” said one person with direct knowledge of the Kiriakou case. "

[Edited on January 26, 2012 at 1:15 AM. Reason : .]

1/26/2012 1:15:06 AM

This is getting a lot of "shares" on Facebook, so I wanted to talk about it without alienating my FB friends that are too ignorant to understand the real problems with our health care model.



So, let me get this straight. You never paid any premiums, and now you're getting health care? Thanks for dumping the costs on the rest of society that had some fucking foresight and responsibility.

Of course insurance companies turned you down - once you had cancer. You knew enough to write all this, but you didn't know how fucked you would be without insurance? Were you living under a rock?

Obviously, though, this was the plan all along. People that understand how the market works knew it. Supporters of the legislation knew it as well, but wouldn't admit it when health care reform was being crafted. Wreck the system, have government serve as the "white knight", and create a whole new class that is loyal to the state for "saving them". Ignore the fact that health care costs are going up even faster now, now that people realize they can take the risk of not having insurance since they'll be covered anyway. This was my critique of Obamacare when it was being crafted, and I hit the nail on the head.

[Edited on January 31, 2012 at 10:42 AM. Reason : ]

1/31/2012 10:41:21 AM

Some people can't afford health insurance.

1/31/2012 10:53:25 AM

They should just die to make our health premiums go down.

1/31/2012 11:05:00 AM

like with most things, liberals see nothing wrong with attempting to correct mistakes after they are made instead of avoiding them in the first place and being truly "fair."

in other news they also dont play any video game without the use of cheat codes, which is basically what this is, and always ruins the game.

1/31/2012 11:08:52 AM

So if someone can't afford health insurance or afford surgery is your expectation that they will just somehow figure it out?

1/31/2012 11:45:06 AM

well gee wilickers i just wish i could apply hindsight to all kinds of things in my life.

1/31/2012 11:49:51 AM

so do I...back to my question though...

1/31/2012 11:51:13 AM

well if i answer truthfully i will just be characterized as maybe a less obvious version of the "let her die" republicans made famous in recent GOP debates.

but heres the thing-

you might call me heartless but i dont consider this to be any different than any other risky behavior. you know what else the lady in the above example probably cant afford to do?

she probably cant afford to drive drunk-
she probably cant afford a daily heroin regimen-
she probably cant afford a fancy car or insane mortgage- oops
she probably cant afford to rob a bank-

why is not having health coverage not grouped in with these activities? she knows to fucking avoid them! you try to shove this opinion of yours down peoples throats by making them feel bad about themselves or maybe contemplating "what if this was my sick mother" or something.

you have no grasp of how much it costs, how responsibility is shared, or what society might look like 100 years from now as the end result of giving folks such a free pass.

honestly in the short term you HAVE to let people fall through the cracks to prevent future meltdown. maybe it seems sick but especially in todays economic climate the nation cannot afford such anchors.

im glad the woman above didnt die. that makes me HAPPY. i hope others like her take advantage of it while they still can because it likely wont last. plenty of folks took advantage of cash for clunkers while it was around so why not? that program probably wont ever happen again-

someone in the near political future is going to hit the fiscal reset button and youre not going to see a lot of this shit ever again.

1/31/2012 12:14:00 PM

Some of you may remember BJ Lawson. He ran for Congress in 4th district in 2008 and 2010. He's not running in 2012, but he has started a new business:

Quote :

"So although I won’t be running for office in 2012, I remain committed to advancing freedom by creating a free market solution for healthcare, making healthcare accessible and affordable for all. Our new company, Physician Care Direct, is transforming the way people pay for healthcare. You see, while today’s so-called “health insurance” is expensive, outpatient healthcare doesn’t have to be. Our solution allows physicians to offer their healthcare services directly to local businesses and individual patients as a non-insurance health benefit, bypassing the costs and complexities of third-party payers, and making care affordable. As Massachusetts' State Treasurer Timothy Cahill noted, today's American healthcare system is a textbook example of failed central planning. Medicare sets reimbursement rates from Washington, private insurers riff on that theme, and most patients go to the doctor expecting someone else to pay for a service where cost, price, and value are completely opaque."

This is a free market solution that takes insurance out of the question, which makes health care a lot cheaper. Obamacare is a poorly applied band-aid, nothing more.

1/31/2012 12:19:49 PM

Let's be honest here. The vast majority people can afford basic health insurance but choose not to purchase it. I feel that it one positive of "Obamacare". Hopefully it will work out that everyone who can possible afford has to buy it.

1/31/2012 12:20:24 PM

^^basically what ron paul said the other night. government and employer involvement is what drives healthcare costs up.

just like easy access to student loans artificially inflated tuition prices, etc.

1/31/2012 12:26:00 PM

The entire reason health insurance exists in the first place is because directly purchasing services from doctors is absurdly expensive for most individuals.

1/31/2012 12:57:42 PM

And purchasing healthcare directly from doctors is absurdly expensive because of cartels, regulations, and insurance.

1/31/2012 12:59:23 PM

Quote :

"This was my critique of Obamacare when it was being crafted, and I hit the nail on the head."

This Facebook picture proves I'm right!

1/31/2012 12:59:53 PM

you assume all of the uninsured are poor when plenty of them are simply stupid "nickle and dime" types.

so fuck that nonsense-

1/31/2012 1:27:34 PM

It's called google, folks, you can check your assumptions with just 10 fucking minutes of searching.

Quote :

"you assume all of the uninsured are poor when plenty of them are simply stupid "nickle and dime" types."

The Distribution of the Uninsured and Total U.S. Population by Income
(As measured by the Federal Poverty Level) in 2004



Federal Poverty Level is about $11k. Over half of the uninsured make less than $22k.

So yes, most of the uninsured are poor motherfuckers.

That chart is from 2004, it's gotten worse since the recession hit.



I have to know: Do you actually find websites that give you these misconceptions, or are you just making them up on the fly because they sound like plausible assertions given your worldview?

[Edited on January 31, 2012 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2012 1:42:18 PM

Quote :

"And purchasing healthcare directly from doctors is absurdly expensive because of cartels, regulations, and insurance."

Yes Loneshark. Insurance was invented because healthcare was too expensive due to insurance. Do you even read the shit you post or have you installed some kind of feces-to-text peripheral on your toilet?

[Edited on January 31, 2012 at 1:47 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2012 1:46:33 PM

Quote :

"I have to know: Do you actually find websites that give you these misconceptions, or are you just making them up on the fly because they sound like plausible assertions given your worldview?"

It's fucking amazing to me that during a time with the greatest income inequality in decades, some people on this board can't fathom that such a huge portion of the population can be defined as poor.

It's a worldview that has to be so insulated, that you almost think that person writing it has never left Wake County.

But then again, I'm still shocked that people can attack Obama from the right. Seriously, it amazes me.

[Edited on January 31, 2012 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

1/31/2012 2:03:01 PM

Unless you've actually had to pay for a visit to a doctor/hospital outside of a routine exam in your life, you are banned from talking about this topic. If you have, than you know that the health care system in this country is fucked primarily for 2 reasons:

1. It is largely a for profit enterprise.
2. The standard of measurement for it's quality is utilization rate, rather than actual health outcomes.

And again, unless you have personally experienced just how plain corrupt and inefficient our health care system is, either during an extended hospital stay or non-routine office visits then you just need to shut the fuck up and let the people who have explain how it is. There is a reason why most polls show at least a plurality of Americans in support of single payer or nationalized health care. There is a reason why non-Americans are literally dumbstruck when you tell them how things are here. It's because they've either experienced the problems first hand, or know that there is an alternative.

1/31/2012 2:04:55 PM