- Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

[Edited on October 14, 2026 at 11:10 PM. Reason : Critical thinking is possible only where the standpoints of all others are open to inspection. Hence, critical thinking, while still a solitary business, does not cut itself off from "all others." To be sure, it still goes on in isolation, but by the force of imagination it makes the others present and thus moves in a space that is potentially public, open to all sides; in other words, it adopts the position of Kant's world citizen. To think with an enlarged mentality means that one trains one's imagination to go visiting.]

10/14/2026 11:10:49 PM

this shit isn’t that deep, man

he’s a piece of shit and there’s no amount of quotes you can post that will change that

10/14/2026 11:49:49 PM

Quote :

"we're only human"

10/14/2026 11:57:00 PM

Quote :

"Elon seems like a piece of shit"

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 6:22 AM. Reason : E]

10/15/2026 6:22:11 AM

Elon said the government set the speed limit, essentially the President.

10/15/2026 10:24:35 AM

10/15/2026 10:33:18 AM

So weird

10/15/2026 10:37:15 AM

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:00 AM. Reason : LA TRAHISON DU JUIF DREYFUS. peut-être coupable, mais il pourrait être innocent]

10/15/2026 10:59:03 AM

care to explain to the class why you felt the need to post that?

10/15/2026 4:38:23 PM

I could be wrong, but I think the point is that we’re all human and our judgments aren’t always perfect. You can criticize Elon Musk without assuming he’s completely beyond understanding or redemption. It seems like he’s suggesting that being too certain about someone’s character can prevent us from seeing the bigger picture.

10/15/2026 5:40:53 PM

Some people are 100% certain about everything, and it's really cool.

10/15/2026 6:16:42 PM

nobody here has ever claimed to be 100% certain about everything?

I am 100% sure that Elon Musk is a piece of shit, though

10/15/2026 6:36:40 PM

ok i will elucidate since you asked

You brought up imagination on the last page

Cael correctly pointed out

Quote :

"I at least have enough imagination I don't say dumb shit like, I can't understand how people vote Kamala. I totally get the hate and also understand why people like Elon."

there's a couple things I see going on here

Imagination. Imagination is a form of Thinking. It is the ability to conceive in your mind of how another person might arrive at a different point of view.

Humility. Humility is a form of Thinking. It is the ability to recognize that your understanding and interpretation of another person's beliefs, motives, character or behavior might be incomplete or incorrect.

Morality. Morality is a form of Thinking. It is the ability to choose to treat others as you would like to be treated. Would you like to misunderstood or misinterpreted and as a result be called evil by another person?

Courage. Courage is a form of Thinking. It is the ability to decide what you think. It is the ability to not let other people decide what you think for you. It is the ability to realize the circumstances in which you should change what you think and to follow through, despite potential consequences.

So why did I bring up Jean Jaures?

for one, bc he's a socialist. brilliant. influential. historic. whatever revolutionary, rebellious coolkid street cred I now apparently lack in my middle age, be assured he still had it. and died for it. so maybe you'll consider what he had to say since i've been written off

more importantly, because he had the wisdom and courage to change his mind about important, controversial, contentious topics when it became clear to him that he had been wrong. And to do so publicly as the leader of his movement.

about what? about the Traitor Jew Alfred Dreyfus.

accusing people of being a traitor is relevant
accusing jews of crimes they did not commit is relevant
getting swept away in unthinking mob behavior to do such things is relevant

And why did I bring up Hannah Arendt?

Arendt is probably best known for her book I quoted, The Origins of Totalitarianism. most of her work was studying how people relinquish their capacity for independent, critical thought, often without realizing they've done so, and the path from this behavior to Totalitarianism. especially in the context of the extermination of Jews during the Holocaust. you wouldn't want to inadvertendly do anything that creates more Totalitarianism in the world, would you? perhaps then it would be wise to more closely study its Origins.

It's convenient the section I quoted spoke to Imagination's relationship to Totalitarianism in the context of the Dreyfus Affair. it's also conventient the other section I quoted that speaks to Imagination's (the "enlarged mentality") relationship to Critical Thinking is from Arendt's lecture notes on Kant's Critique of Judgment, which is the bridge between Understanding via Reason and Moral Action.

p.s. you can draw a straight line from how people Understood, Reasoned and Acted during and after the Dreyfus Affair to Trump being president in 2024. you wouldn't want to inadvertendly do anything that creates more Trump being president in the world, would you? perhaps then it would be wise to more closely study how people Understood, Reasoned and Acted during and after the Dreyfus Affair.

So why this particular Jean Jaures speech?

It's a speech to the children of the French nation. This is especially relevant for me because I too have children and a nation, and all of my ponderings and reactions to what i see in the world today are primarily motivated because i worry about the world that awaits both of them. and especially the degree to which the world tells them to relinquish their capacity for independent, critical thought. and I hope that they will be inspired by people in their lives to remember their Imagination, Humility, Morality and Courage and escape the curse of passing on our Human, Unthinking, Totalitarian tendencies to the next generation of children and nations.

So what does this particular Jean Jaures speech say?

It's about Courage. What are some things he says about Courage that made me feel the need to post it?

Courage is celebrating humanity not denying it.
Courage is not handing over your free will to random forces or impressions.
Courage is understanding your own life, establishing, sharpening and deepening it while also coordinating it with the wider society.
Courage is acknowledging new developments in science and art, welcoming and exploring the almost infinite complexity of knowledge while clarifying the bewildering reality with a broad general understanding and organising and shaping it with the beauty of form and pattern.
Courage is overcoming your faults, suffering for them but not being overwhelmed or side-tracked by them.
Courage is loving life and looking death in the eye, about aiming for the ideal and understanding the real.
Courage is seeking truth and speaking truth, not submitting to a great triumphant lie or echoing ignorant applause or fanatical jeers with our hearts, our mouths or our hands.

So, young tdubbers, you want your lives to be lived, honest and full. And that is why I have shared what I have with you in the way that I have.

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 7:50 PM. Reason : I ain't reading all that, Free Palestine, amirite]

10/15/2026 7:47:39 PM

whatever you need to tell yourself to not see that Elon Musk is a piece of shit

10/15/2026 8:39:16 PM

that was not a post about elon musk, my dear child

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 8:43 PM. Reason : peut-être coupable, mais il pourrait être innocent]

10/15/2026 8:42:28 PM

this is a thread about Elon Musk and a discussion about him being a piece of shit

feel free to disagree and explain why you don’t think he’s a piece of shit

10/15/2026 8:44:25 PM

my opinion on Elon Musk is irrelevant

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 8:48 PM. Reason : pay more attention to jaures' opinion on Courage]

10/15/2026 8:47:38 PM

I disagree

there are sides to take

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 8:53 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2026 8:52:48 PM

the nonparticipants, called irresponsible by the majority, were the only ones who dared judge by themselves

10/15/2026 9:02:42 PM

Idk how irrelevant someone can be with like spending 250 mil for 2026 midterms

10/15/2026 9:23:02 PM

This is the thread where we discuss how credible, or uncredible he is, based on things he does and says, and our resulting opinions of him. Also is it so hard to separate the art from the artist? He can't be a piece of shit just because he made positive contributions to technology?

10/15/2026 9:59:56 PM

I’m skeptical this is really about encouraging independent thought when you won’t even share your own opinion on Elon. It feels more like an elaborate intellectual exercise to avoid taking an actual position.

10/15/2026 10:19:03 PM

I was trying to decide to post this dumb meme i made but the super defensive post in the other thread made me take the jump



Sttexan is a wildcard, im just a dummy off to the side that everybody hates together

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 10:35 PM. Reason : Tell me I'm funny and nice and worth validation pls]

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 10:37 PM. Reason : Damnit I meant to say TSB instead of TWW damnit]

10/15/2026 10:33:18 PM

gonna need you to explain why you think I deserve that. the other end of that one is very deserved.

I honestly feel that me and you post very similarly

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 10:42 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2026 10:41:08 PM

You could say I'm bipolar

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 10:47 PM. Reason : ^seriously. I'd say tgl, moron, and rwoody are all pretty much on the same page]

10/15/2026 10:46:41 PM

^^Maybe! I'm a terrible judge of my own posts!

I think we have very similar policitics but I think your posting style is far more combative and absolute than mine, imho

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 10:47 PM. Reason : E]

10/15/2026 10:46:48 PM

Thats fair too imo. I edited mine above

I'd say bullet, and a few others also very similar

10/15/2026 10:48:31 PM

Politics or post style?

10/15/2026 10:49:04 PM

Politics for sure

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 10:51 PM. Reason : The more liberal wing if you will]

10/15/2026 10:50:07 PM

just sick of the people who trip over themselves to find a way to be ok with anything that’s currently going on. my wife is a federal employee and this is a place to vent. I’m also just tired of people not speaking with their chest.

I’m happy to be an absolutist when it comes to anything regarding human rights

10/15/2026 10:51:31 PM

*sigh*

Quote :

"i've already explained my theories on elon and why i think you've got it wrong. ask clawai to explain it ig"

10/15/2026 10:56:02 PM

^^I understand the anger, and the politics, but if you're on TSB in an attempt to convince anyone you're right, I think your methods need work. I don't think I'm in the first 10 people to direct this feedback your way.

Note: I don't think I'm convincing anyone either but more bc I'm just bad at persuasive writing (or writing in general). Im sure I have pure anger posts, like when cael was gloating Nov 24, but I think my posts in general have way less condescension and venom

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:01 PM. Reason : E]

10/15/2026 10:57:28 PM

I’m not here to attempt to convince anyone of anything

if I wasn’t sure that I was right about something, I wouldn’t post about it. it really is as simple as that.

(to be clear, this is only about posting in TSB)

10/15/2026 11:00:58 PM

Main Points of qntmfred’s Views on Elon Musk

* Admires Musk’s accomplishments: Believes Musk deserves recognition for his contributions to technology, particularly SpaceX and space exploration.
* Rejects blind loyalty: Insists he isn’t an Elon Musk fanboy and acknowledges Musk has done both great and terrible things.
* Disputes accusations of racism: Believes Musk’s worldview centers more on technological progress and Western values than racial supremacy.
* Acknowledges problematic behavior: Criticizes Musk’s associations with racist figures, inflammatory rhetoric, and questionable political decisions.
* Mixed feelings about DOGE: Supports government efficiency but criticizes DOGE’s execution and ideological motivations.
* Criticizes Musk’s opponents: Believes critics frequently exaggerate accusations, misinterpret motivations, and undermine legitimate criticism.
* Emphasizes independent thinking: Advocates evaluating evidence objectively rather than adopting judgments based on political affiliations.
* Extends Musk the benefit of the doubt: Often interprets Musk’s intentions favorably, sometimes acknowledging he may be too generous.
* Separates accomplishments from character: Believes technological achievements deserve recognition regardless of personal shortcomings.
* Central philosophy: Understanding someone’s motivations doesn’t mean endorsing their behavior.

Overall: qntmfred sees Musk as a deeply flawed but accomplished individual and believes ideological hostility frequently prevents people from evaluating him fairly.

10/15/2026 11:01:17 PM

Quote :

" Ken Warner @kenwarner I appreciate many things about Elon, but his repeated inability to treat others with basic decency and respect has been quite the turnoff."

See, this seems like something most people on here would agree with. But I wouldn't have seen it had I not clicked on a bunch of twitter links, which I don't necessarily come to TWW to do.

10/15/2026 11:02:11 PM

^^^I don't understand posting on a political forum if not to discuss and debate politics, but ok I don't need to understand we're all different

I guess to end on a compliment, I'm jealous of your confidence

10/15/2026 11:04:26 PM

Quote :

" you're on TSB in an attempt to convince anyone you're right, I think your methods need work. I don't think I'm in the first 10 people to direct this feedback your way"

I'm not even trying to convince anybody that I'M right. The last few years I've spent a gazillion hours just learning, trying to fill in the multiple infinities of my own ignorance rather that going around telling people what I believe because I'm far more interested in convincing myself that i'm right. I share what I learn from in hopes that other people like to learn too, but that's clearly not happening here. no worries. my methods do need work and my methods have already started changing. just not here.

10/15/2026 11:04:52 PM

Sure, again, fair enough. I don't get spending so much time telling others they are wrong if you aren't trying to convince them that they are wrong, but fine.

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:07 PM. Reason : E]

My response when I read something wrong but have no desire to correct/convince them: "........"

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:08 PM. Reason : A]

^I'm jealous of lots of things for you! You're obviously smart and super well read!


[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:10 PM. Reason : Compliments for everyone ]

10/15/2026 11:07:37 PM

in 2026, on a large/national scale, I don’t see anything worth debating

intra-party debates are different. I’m nearly certain that we’re on the same page when it comes to that. that’s way different than posting about the awfulness of the right on a regular basis. there is nothing up for debate when it comes to them.

10/15/2026 11:10:12 PM

if anything i'm trying to convince others that their methods of evaluating reality are tainted. it's not about i'm right. it's that people are 100% convinced that the jew is a traitor

10/15/2026 11:10:38 PM

Quote :

" it's that people are 100% convinced that the jew is a traitor"

and this is exactly why I was not a fan of the dumb horseshoe image comparing the two of us

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:14 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2026 11:14:01 PM

^^but, like, to want to convince you have to think they are wrong, and the end goal is to get them to look at reality "correct" and then they will agree with you bc you are objectively correct? I may be way off base but that sentence is the core of most of your posts by my interpretation.

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:16 PM. Reason : Yea i don't get why everything comes back to antisemitism, the boogie man in every closet ]

The whole point of the horseshoe is that opposing views end up having similarities, in this case: rwoody reading condescension



[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:18 PM. Reason : I wouldn't expect you to be a fan, it criticizes you ]

10/15/2026 11:14:45 PM

to sum up my posts in TSB the most surface level possible: obviously bad things are bad

it is legitimately as simple as that. I don’t see how that’s in the same universe as whatever is going on with the other dude.

10/15/2026 11:21:01 PM

Quote :

" Yea i don't get why everything comes back to antisemitism"

Quote :

"you wouldn't want to inadvertently do anything that creates more Totalitarianism extermination of Jews in the world, would you? perhaps then it would be wise to more closely study its Origins."

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:27 PM. Reason : I don't like Totalitarianism. I am recognizing its Origins. Too many have already failed the test]

10/15/2026 11:26:21 PM

^ok
^^ok

I relent we can go back to arguing making statements that have no underlying intent to change minds about Elon

10/15/2026 11:28:46 PM

agreed

what'd y'all think of his neato flying car tonight. pretty neato right?

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:30 PM. Reason : i like things that are neato]

10/15/2026 11:30:41 PM

dude sucks shit

I do not care to see a wall of text that has absolutely nothing to do with dude sucking shit

10/15/2026 11:32:10 PM

Quote :

"I am recognizing its Origins"

[Edited on October 15, 2026 at 11:34 PM. Reason : neato]

10/15/2026 11:34:11 PM

10/15/2026 11:36:46 PM