PHOENIX, Tuesday, Sep.11, 2001 - “I can’t believe what’s happening,” a shocked close friend said this morning about the deadliest attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor (or maybe even ever?). “No surprise there,” I replied. “I've seen too many tragedies (around the world) in the last 11 years, some firsthand as you know, to be fazed by anything anymore.”

It wasn’t a blasé answer. Just factual. So I explained…

When the "world's only superpower" and its allies bombed and killed thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq and Serbia, Americans were told it was just "collateral damage." After all, we, the "champions of democracy and the free world," were only fighting the murderous regimes of Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic. Some civilian casualties were "regrettable, but unavoidable," the Pentagon, NATO or State Dept. spokesmen told us.

Now the tables have turned. Terrorism begets terrorism. Unnamed terrorists, presumed to be "Islamic fundamentalists," have now killed thousands of innocent Americans while fighting, what they think are, the murderous regimes of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. Now Americans know firsthand some of the terror the Baghdad or Belgrade residents felt when NATO bombers unloaded their deadly cargo on them. The only thing missing is the terrorists' spokesmen telling us now that "it was just "collateral damage;" that "some civilian casualties were regrettable, but unavoidable."

What we did to Iraq and to Serbia was a case of state terrorism. What unnamed terrorists did to us today was retaliation to state terrorism. "Collateral damage" has come home to roost. "What goes around, comes around." "He who plays with fire, gets burned by fire."

But make no mistake: This was NOT an “Attack on America,” as CNN and other networks are hailing. This was a strike at the heart of the Washington-led New World Order. Signs are unmistakable. Just look at the targets: The World Trade Center/Wall Street, the Pentagon... Some sources speculate that one or both of the two hijacked planes that crashed in Pennsylvania might have been destined for either the White House or the Capitol.

America and Americans, meaning innocent civilians who perished today, are “just collateral damage.” As Iraqi and Serb civilians were. We are now paying for aggressions and crimes against humanity that our government has committed. Just as Iraqi and Serb civilians were. We've become expendable. Just as Iraqi and Serb civilians were.

So whenever you hear a politician or a media personality say that this attack was “unprovoked;” that this was a murder of innocent “men, women and children;” that it was a strike at the “American way of life” - and no doubt you’ll see and hear much of that in the next hours and days - try a role reversal. Imagine that you’re listening to an Iraqi or a Serb politician using those words in reference to victims of American bombs. And then you’ll get a fuller picture of what transpired today.

Meanwhile, madness also begets madness. The dust had not yet settled from the collapsed World Trade Center twin-towers, and already some “hawks” in the American government and media were crying for “retaliatory strikes.” That’s pretty shallow on several levels…

First, the same “hawks” who are telling us bombastically that “America is at war” are at a loss to identify with whom. So who and what are we to retaliate against?

Second, such “hawks” never learn. One only needs to look at the Middle East for an example of futility of violence. To stop anti-American terrorism, Washington must stop its own state terrorism. Both brands of terrorism are despicable and inexcusable.

Finally, if there is a silver lining in this vast American tragedy; if there is one good thing that comes out of all this madness - let us hope it is the death of that "death merchant" scheme - the national Defense Missile Shield. The DMS was being rammed down the American taxpayers throats by both Clinton and Bush administrations, notwithstanding the opposition to it even from most of our allies.

Now I have a very simple question for the American President: In light of what happened today in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, how would your national Defense Missile Shield have defended us from this attack?

The answer is obvious. Congress should kill the sucker (DMS) before it kills us - financially and geopolitically!

Meanwhile, may God have mercy upon the souls of all innocent people who died today as "collateral damage" of the Clinton/Bush arrogant foreign policy. The Washington-led New World Order has now come home to roost. For, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

9/11/2001 9:11:52 PM

WE WERE AT FUCKING WAR YOU STUPID IDIOT. IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.

9/11/2001 9:15:49 PM

let me just say that i am totally PRO-USA, but we must be weary of who our allies are and who we are actually hurting with that.

9/11/2001 9:25:01 PM

ya know Maxass go up to the family of someone who lost a love one or a friend today in these attacks and spout that shit....those would be the last words youd ever speak

[Edited on September 11, 2001 at 9:30 PM. Reason : some people]

9/11/2001 9:30:27 PM

Quote :

"WE WERE AT FUCKING WAR YOU STUPID IDIOT. IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION."

let me be the first to break it to yall: we are NOT at war......no one has said anything about war

9/11/2001 9:33:37 PM

Oh really....
Then what do you suppose us to do? Just sit back and tell the loved ones of those who died: "Well, we'd love to do something about it, but they were just paying us back". And as you put it, "collateral damage", there is a reason that the US practices it in the first place: Retribution for terrorist acts (such as the one we've seen here). Oh, you say that terrorist acts are because of US's "collateral damage"? Well who are the instigators? The US? The army? I wonder if your viewpoint would have been different had you been in those buildings.

And another thing about US's "collateral damage".... The US makes an attack on BULIDINGS... usually at night when the level of people in them are at a bare minimum. And the US attacks military targets when possible, where the chance of civilian casualties are the lowest. This attack on the other hand, was 4-pronged....and Dileberately aimed WHERE AND WHEN civilian casualties would be the highest (a huge building when everyone would be sitting down to work). And we take responcibility of our actions: This was the US, we are retaliating against your building because of reason X. This attack, however, is STILL unclaimed. It was done by a relatively small group of people who aren't reveiling their identity, much less their reason for the attacks.

No, I'm sorry my friend, there is a big difference between intentianal loss of life, and "collateral damage", and the perpetrators deserve whatever is coming their way.

9/11/2001 9:34:51 PM

Oh, and about the National Missile Defense System (NMDS).....You can forget about that dying at ALL! I wouldn't be surprized if congress pumped the budget up 10 fold......

You know why? It's not because of the fact that it wouldn't have prevented this situation, it's the fact that American citizens are now AWARE of the terrorist threat. That has been this SINGLE largest reason the NMDS hasn't gone further. In the mid-90's Clinton organized a special investigatory team to determine the threat of a terrorist attack. The team returned surprizing results that indicated the threat was extremely high. However, in order to try to kill the NMDS, the Clinton administration suppressed these results.

Now the public has seen terrorism first hand. Even if they realize that a NMDS wouldn't prevent this kind of attack, they WILL recognize that the threat is out there.....

9/11/2001 9:43:19 PM

collateral damage???

no no my fellow ww, when you kill thousands of innocents w/o a purpose, but with the guise of a "religious war" and fundamental differences, you have no point.

this is not any just deserts...no thats a copout.

[Edited on September 11, 2001 at 9:53 PM. Reason : ..]

9/11/2001 9:52:01 PM

lord knows, i love america. and NONE of those people deserved to die. but we're stupid to think that some people don't think differently than we do. i am all for swift and painful retribution. we just have to realize, you sew what you reap. we should keep our necks out of other people's business.

9/11/2001 9:55:42 PM

I agree...however many innocent people die in US bombings of targets we can at least be sure that to the best of our knowledge it is a military target with a minimum # of people. However, today these attackers staged a media bonanza. Isn't it wonderful how the 1st plane flew in and geve enough time for people to pull out the video cameras to film the second one...and to attack a symbol where everyday 50,000 people go to work is absolutly horrible. You can't say you're fighting a just cause attacking 50,000 civilians. I mean as horrible as the attack on the Pentagon was, at least it was a military target. The people who work there are for the most part working for the military, not saying they have less of a right to live or anything but they have signed up for the duty. They know that they are targets for enemy agression and have agreed to be so because the want to serve their country. Now I'm all for looking at it from the other guy's shoes but because of this blatant attack on civilian targets, I find it very hard to compare the attacks with any US military action and find it rather insulting and disgusting. But that's just my $.02
RL

9/11/2001 9:59:20 PM

Actually Cass it has been referred to as an act of war. They just don't know with who yet.

If it is Bin Laden, and it is, then we are at war with Afghanistan as well as Bin Laden. Bush said that any nation that harbors these terrorists (and Afghanistan has been harboring him for 10 years) will be dealt with with as much fervor as the terrorists themselves.

So ipso facto we are a war with Aghanistan. But don't worry, once it really starts, it'll be over in 10 days or less...

J

9/11/2001 10:06:56 PM

by the by Bin Laden decleared war on us in Feburary..

9/11/2001 10:24:07 PM

let his cowardice show by him not stepping forward. I am not an expert in the islamic faith, but I believe they still follow the same commandments as christians and jews. Religions have to stop, it's the only way. The only religion that needs to stay is that of the love and respect of life. Bin Ladin isn't a man with a holy mission. He's a opportunistic murderer. Terrorism must be stopped, and some world agreement must be made. I can't go into life and start a family knowing that at any time we could be casualties of a war we have no desire to be in. This is by far one of the saddest days I have ever lived

9/11/2001 11:43:14 PM

Why couldn't some of the people in this message board be at those fucking towers as they were attacked today??? No one deserves this...NO ONE you fucking idiots.

Would you have thought the same way as you were making cell phone calls from under the rumble? I guarentee not. Yeah right.

9/12/2001 12:11:33 AM

when he said "we were at war" i have a feeling he was probably talking about the war that was going on in iraq in serbia. this is a totally different situation from that. that was a war. this is complete cowardice, inflicting pain on innocent people. not comparable at all.

9/12/2001 12:14:40 AM

Quote :

"Bin Ladin isn't a man with a holy mission. He's a opportunistic murderer. Terrorism must be stopped, and some world agreement must be made."

what a great quote... i totally agree...

9/12/2001 1:45:07 AM

i aint even gonna say nothing cause maximus' thread pissed me off. save your anti american trash for another day

9/12/2001 1:56:43 AM

Quote :

"how would your national Defense Missile Shield have defended us from this attack? The answer is obvious. Congress should kill the sucker (DMS) before it kills us - financially and geopolitically!"

hell yeah, i'll go with maximus on that point. this attack not only makes people aware that there is a terrorist threat, but also shows that a missile shield will not stop terrorism. if they are so inclined, terrorists can and will find other ways to accomplish their goals, thus making a missile defense system useless and wasteful.

instead of focusing on ways of defending ourselves, we need to eliminate the threat of attack by fostering peace.........it seems the whole world is pessimistic and expecting the worst, living in a constant state of fear and mistrust. if we maintain such attitudes, fears of violence and war and terrorism will become self-fulfilling prophecies............why can't we create a world where nations trust each other and work together for the good of humanity? it IS possible.

____

[Edited on September 12, 2001 at 7:27 AM. Reason : q]

9/12/2001 7:26:49 AM

as if I needed another reason to dislike afghanistan (re: human rights violations/abuse of women and men alike)

9/12/2001 8:54:26 AM

Quote :

"America and Americans, meaning innocent civilians who perished today, are “just collateral damage.” As Iraqi and Serb civilians were. We are now paying for aggressions and crimes against humanity that our government has committed. Just as Iraqi and Serb civilians were. We've become expendable. Just as Iraqi and Serb civilians were."

this article brings up some good point...mainly the manipulation of the people by media, etc.
But this particular quote disturbs me. If they were looking to destroy symbols without "collateral damage" or at least as much they could have performed this cowardly act at night not at 9am when just everybody was getting to work unaware that literally death was about to fly into them. No these psychotic men were willing to die for their cause, basically to yes destroy main symbols of American military and economic power but also to destroy as many lives as possible. There is a fundamental difference from our attacks on nations who don't even believe in human/civil rights. Do those countries treat their citizens as anything other than "collateral damage" . I certainly don't think so. I fully support our foriegn policy in Iraq and Bosnia.

9/12/2001 10:39:12 AM

how much do you know about US foreign policy in Irag and Bosnia?

9/12/2001 10:42:00 AM

cass, read the post. he brought up a situation when we were at war with Iraq, and compared it to now. and yes, attacking our military's HQ IS an act of war.

9/12/2001 12:58:20 PM