User not logged in - login - register
Home Calendar Books School Tool Photo Gallery Message Boards Users Statistics Advertise Site Info
go to bottom | |
 Message Boards » » GOP Presidential Contenders 2012 Page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 ... 38, Prev Next  
Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"I can see Pawlenty making a run. I know nothing of the guy which is probably the best position to be in at this point."


Pawlenty used to be governor of Minnesota. But he's also a self-proclaimed social conservative who is anti-abortion, a proponent of a constitutional marriage ban for gay couples, says he will reinstate DADT if elected, he promotes abstinence only education, he was one of those attacking President Obama for doing an address to students just as many GOP presidents have done in the past, and he called the idea of having an islamic center near ground zero unpatriotic.

Know enough yet?

1/22/2011 8:25:30 PM

AuH20
All American
1603 Posts
user info
edit post

Shortened, for those who think it was tl;dr.

Quote :
"Pawlenty used to be governor of Minnesota. But he's also a self-proclaimed social conservative who is anti-abortion, a proponent of a constitutional marriage ban for gay couples, says he will reinstate DADT if elected, he promotes abstinence only education, he was one of those attacking President Obama for doing an address to students just as many GOP presidents have done in the past, and he called the idea of having an islamic center near ground zero unpatriotic has social conservative views.

Know enough yet?"

1/22/2011 8:38:46 PM

mrfrog

15062 Posts
user info
edit post

On Wikleaks:

Huckabee:
Manning for treason, anything less than execution is too kind

Romney:
Manning for treason, not Assange

Palin:
Assange not journalist, same urgency to pursue as Al Queda

--
This is just one thing, but it shows the propensity of... certain prospective candidates to radical and dangerous rhetoric. I can not express just how bad I feel an election of Huckabee or Palin would be for the nation. I find a difference between the 2, but not a huge one. I sincerely desire that they do not get the nomination.

As much as I don't like Romney, not liking is quite different from actually fearing him being in office.

More than anything I want our 2 party system to take the hit from the mess we've gotten ourselves into. But that's just plain too optimistic

1/22/2011 9:52:09 PM

eyedrb
All American
5853 Posts
user info
edit post

How did he do as governor Supp? I have his book in my basket in case he starts looking like he might have a shot Ill have to read it.

The things you mentioned arent really in control of the president and I dont think that he would have the support to go back on. imo I disagree with a lot of it, but those are his social issues. I think we need someone who is fine with being a one termer and willing to stand up for the cuts that need to be made. I think Christie has shown he can stand up, I dont know enough about Pawlenty to know the same.

Newt is probably the most qualified but the generation gap hurts. People get excited when their own generation or a younger one is running, it is as if they are somehow now in charge. haha

1/22/2011 11:06:13 PM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

A Minnesotan could probably answer your question better than myself. I don't tend to follow other states governors in much detail, and even then only somewhat for neighboring states. At least other states US congressmen and women have some impact on polices that could affect me. But governors just aren't that interesting.

But I have seen this:

http://minnesotaindependent.com/64393/pawlenty-sex-ed-abstinence-funding

Quote :
"Pawlenty had until Monday to apply for the federal Personal Responsibility Education Program, which provides $55 million in funding for comprehensive sex education programming in the states. Minnesota’s share would have been $850,000. But, Pawlenty turned down that money and applied Minnesota for the Title V State Abstinence Education Grant Program instead. The Title V program will require Minnesota to put up $379,307 in state funds in order to get $505,743 in federal funding."


You can read this either as standing up for his social conservative principles, or hurting his state to the tune of 300 k because of his social conservatism. When I was checking out something on this article, I noticed a discontented post that sort of speaks to your question:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/257333/quiet-contender-robert-costa?page=3

Quote :
"Tim Pawlenty was a bad Governor he failed to eliminate mandates he failed to balance his last budget. He use an accounting slight of hand not to cut programs and a bloated State Budget. The economy of Minnesota was worse under him than it was before he was Governor. Property taxes in Minnesota went up every year that Pawlenty was in charge. Mandates equal hidden taxes. Pawlenty was bad for Minnesota and he would be awful as President."


That certainly isn't a full picture of him though, but its not like I'll be voting in a republican presidential primary, and since he hasn't really thrust himself onto the national stage yet I, like you, don't know much.

[Edited on January 22, 2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2011 11:48:28 PM

eyedrb
All American
5853 Posts
user info
edit post

^thanks man. I appreciate the info.

But I see him saving us, federal tax payers, 350k on the first link. Glass is half full I suppose.

1/23/2011 10:12:02 AM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

Looks like Gingrich is getting closer to making things official:

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/01/21/a-newt-gingrich-presidential-campaign-out-of-buckhead/?cxntfid=blogs_political_insider_jim_galloway

Quote :
"Newt Gingrich tells Georgia Republicans he’ll be a candidate in ‘12

In the last 24 hours, former U.S. House speaker Newt Gingrich has touched base with several prominent Republicans in his former home state, telling them that he intends to make a run for president in 2012 using Georgia as his base – and that he already has his eye on office space in Buckhead for a campaign headquarters."


Quote :
"For Gingrich, the key question is whether or not he can recreate an enthusiastic political base in Georgia more than a decade after he left it. "

1/23/2011 5:09:35 PM

roddy
All American
25690 Posts
user info
edit post

Obama is praying every night that Palin runs......

1/23/2011 7:58:37 PM

mrfrog

15062 Posts
user info
edit post

Man, I would really like to vote against Obama in 2012. Really, I don't like the job he's done and I would like to vote against him.

And it SUCKS that I probably won't. There is about 0% chance that the GOP will come up with a candidate that I can tolerate. That is just too much to ask of them. And if someone like Palin runs, I'll vote for Obama.

I hate American politics.

1/23/2011 9:13:21 PM

aaronburro
BigMan rules
49330 Posts
user info
edit post

^^ praying... to Allah!

1/23/2011 9:28:19 PM

d357r0y3r
Jimmies: Unrustled
7713 Posts
user info
edit post

^^It's that terrible realization that, in all likelyhood, nothing will change, and the American public will get exactly what it deserves.

1/24/2011 12:03:31 PM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2011/01/huckabee-ahead-nationally.html

Quote :
"Huckabee ahead nationally

For the first time in PPP's national polling for the 2012 Republican nomination there's a clear leader: Mike Huckabee. Huckabee's at 24% to 14% for Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney, 11% for Newt Gingrich"


Quote :
"Huckabee's definitely having the best 2011 of the potential Republican contenders so far, continuing to lead in all of the Iowa polls and improving his standing in the national ones. Of course who knows if he's even going to run...and if he doesn't that could breathe some life into Palin's prospects since they share a similar base of admirers."


I'm surprised he's at a 10 point advantage to all the other double digit contenders despite no one officially campaigning yet. My only guess as to why is the platform fox has been giving him with his show.

1/25/2011 5:46:09 AM

aaronburro
BigMan rules
49330 Posts
user info
edit post

i, too, can post the same thing in multiple threads

1/25/2011 8:09:30 AM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/27/sharron-angle-president-bid-iowa_n_814736.html

Quote :
"Many were quick to play down failed Nevada GOP Senate candidate Sharron Angle's recent trip to Iowa as a simple journey to partake in a red carpet screening of a Christian conservative film, and not a precursor to potential presidential run, but apparently Sharron Angle wasn't one of them.

Asked if she was planning a run for the White House, Angle, who lost to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in a tightly contested race in November, appeared unwilling to close any doors.

"I'll just say I have lots of options for the future, and I'm investigating all my options," Angle responded, according to the Des Moines Register, before asking the organizers to "Please, just invite me back.""

1/28/2011 12:29:33 AM

Prawn Star
All American
7590 Posts
user info
edit post

Whoever gets nominated by the GOP will just get destroyed by Obama in 2012. There is no doubt in my mind that Obama will be a 2-term President. He could win in a bigger landslide than Reagan in 84. That's why some of the GOP up-and-comers like Pence, Ryan and Christie are sitting this one out. No point in standing on the tracks while the train is coming through.

It would be pretty comical to see Obama rip apart Gingrich or Palin or someone like that. More likely, Huckabee or Romney will win and then sputter through the campaign trying to keep things close with constant underhanded complaints about "Obamacare" and "out-of-control spending", even though they started that runaway deficit train.


[Edited on January 28, 2011 at 3:11 AM. Reason : 2]

1/28/2011 3:08:47 AM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"and we still don't know for sure if Pence is going to run, but if either one of these guys throws their hat into the ring, they're my first two picks at the moment."


Quote :
"they're just really the only candidates I can see supporting at this point in the race and they just happen to both be from Indiana. Pence did win the Value Voters straw poll a few months ago which I found a little surprising given how much the social cons adore Huckabee and Palin."


Quote :
"That's why some of the GOP up-and-comers like Pence, Ryan and Christie are sitting this one out."


It looks like Pence is out, at least in part, because the GOP establishment didn't want him in:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/27/republican-governors-urged-pence-to-pass-on-presidential-bid/v

Quote :
"Republican governors urged Pence to pass on presidential bid

Washington (CNN) - Indiana Rep. Mike Pence's decision not to run for president came after a serious lobbying effort by the Republican Governors Association, a GOP source close to the party organization told CNN Thursday."

1/28/2011 8:45:22 PM

eyedrb
All American
5853 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
" Huckabee or Romney will win and then sputter through the campaign trying to keep things close with constant underhanded complaints about "Obamacare" and "out-of-control spending", even though they started that runaway deficit train.

"


haahha, WHAT?

I too think O will be a two term president unless christie runs.

1/28/2011 10:33:57 PM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

I think if he was going to run, he would not have turned down the opportunity to be the GOP SOTU responder. He also said he wasn't going to run which doesn't always mean a lot. Actions speak louder than words with these things, and he turned that down, and I can't recall any trips to Iowa for fake reasons on his behalf like a book tour, speaking engagement, or film screening in the case of Angle.

1/28/2011 10:39:48 PM

roddy
All American
25690 Posts
user info
edit post

^^Didn't Christie just propose rasing the state income tax by 66% in NJ? Making it the highest taxed state in the Union? I can already see the attack ads, "you think your taxes are high now..."

His approval rating in NJ has plunged off a cliff since that annoucement.

1/29/2011 5:36:15 PM

Prawn Star
All American
7590 Posts
user info
edit post

nope. Maybe you're thinking of Pat Quinn in Illinois.

1/29/2011 6:21:21 PM

EuroTitToss
All American
4526 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"That's why some of the GOP up-and-comers like Pence, Ryan and Christie are sitting this one out. No point in standing on the tracks while the train is coming through."


I was wondering why Ryan wasn't running.

1/31/2011 9:15:37 AM

LunaK
LOSER :(
23414 Posts
user info
edit post

Hunstman is resigning his ambassadorship... he's running

1/31/2011 9:25:26 AM

ThePeter
TWW CHAMPION
37696 Posts
user info
edit post

Donald Trump is thinking of running

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-opec-oil-egypt/2011/01/30/id/384427

Quote :
"Donald Trump is mad as hell — and he’s letting everybody know it.
In a wide-ranging exclusive interview with Newsmax.TV on Friday, the billionaire real estate mogul and reality TV star lashes out at China, OPEC, Obama’s Middle East dealings, the president’s State of the Union address and more."


Quote :
"Asked directly about a possible run, Trump tells Newsmax: “I’m thinking about it. I’m looking at what’s happening with this country and frankly, it’s very sad. I see what’s happening left and right, how we’re being abused by other nations, and I don’t like it. I don’t like what’s happening with jobs. I am seriously thinking about it.”"


Quote :
"Trump says if he does run it will be as a Republican and not as a third party candidate, and explains why he would run."


Quote :
"“Unless we get tough, and smart, and unless we stop having dinners for people that are destroying us, like when the president of China came two weeks ago to this country and we gave him a great state dinner, we’re going to have big problems.”"


Quote :
"Referring to President Obama’s State of the Union speech, Trump says: “He didn’t talk about the deficit, he didn’t talk about how to pay off all the debt that we have. Instead he’s telling everybody what a great country China is, that China has the fastest computer in the world. That should be for the president of China to talk about, not President Obama. "


Quote :
"“I understand economics. You break up what would normally be an illegal monopoly, OPEC, and break it up very strongly. The Middle East is exploding, and I’m saying that could have a positive impact on oil prices. "


[Edited on January 31, 2011 at 10:22 AM. Reason : asdf]

1/31/2011 10:21:22 AM

eyedrb
All American
5853 Posts
user info
edit post

Supplanter, I think you are right about Christie. Im just hoping he changes his mind.

1/31/2011 10:45:45 AM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/31/rasmussen-third-party-problem-palin-voters

Quote :
"Nearly half of the Republican Primary voters who support Sarah Palin say they are at least somewhat likely to vote for a third-party candidate if she does not win the GOP presidential nomination."


Questionable source, but it'll be interesting to see if other polling backs it up. I'm betting Huckabee could pick up the same set of voters.

I do wonder, who are the most likely third party republicanish candidates?

2/1/2011 5:05:55 AM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/07/pawlenty-says-he-can-win-in-2012/

Quote :
"Pawlenty says he can win in 2012

(CNN) - Despite his socially conservative stances, former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty believes he can win the presidency."


Quote :
"The likely 2012 presidential candidate spoke in Sioux City, Iowa, on Monday as part of a lecture series sponsored by the Family Leader, a socially conservative group, in a speech threaded with his moral values.

With his wife, Mary, by his side, Pawlenty touted his belief that marriage is "between a man and woman" and his pro-life history.

"(It is) hard to have family life unless you respect life," Pawlenty said. "It says in our founding documents and in the Bible that we are to respect life, not destroy life.""


Quote :
"When addressing his faith, he said his words weren't those of a "politician passing through town," because this is a nation "founded under God."

"First and foremost we don't want to be a country that turns away from God, we want to be a country that turns toward God," Pawlenty said.

The former Minnesota state legislator has frequented early presidential primary and caucus states while he continues to say he'll make a final decision about a White House run in the coming months. Pawlenty was in Iowa in January to promote his new book, "Courage to Stand," which discusses his faith and its influence on his public life."


I think he's getting close to announcement if he's openly saying he's going to win.

2/7/2011 11:11:17 PM

eyedrb
All American
5853 Posts
user info
edit post

^yeah. Now Ill have to read his damn book.

2/7/2011 11:16:24 PM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146300/Huckabee-Palin-Romney-Tie-Lead-GOP-Preferences.aspx

Quote :
"Huckabee, Palin, Romney Tie for Lead in GOP '12 Preferences
Huckabee's support up six points since September


PRINCETON, NJ -- Republicans and Republican-leaning independents have no clear favorite for the party's 2012 presidential nominee at this point, with Mike Huckabee (18%), Mitt Romney (16%), and Sarah Palin (16%) in a statistical tie for the lead. They are the only candidates in the crowded field of potential candidates who register double-digit support"


Not surprising that Fox picked Huckabee to back, and he jumped to the lead. The top supported candidates breakdown:

Huckabee 18
Romney 16
Palin 16
Gingrich 9
Paul 5
Bachmann 4

Everyone else got 3 or below on a poll with a margin of error of 3.

2/23/2011 11:26:34 PM

IMStoned420
All American
15485 Posts
user info
edit post

Oh my God I hope Sarah Palin wins.

2/23/2011 11:44:56 PM

Prawn Star
All American
7590 Posts
user info
edit post

Palin has virtually zero chance of winning the GOP nomination. Although she has her constutuency of supporters, a much larger group within the GOP find her to be embarrassing and will never vote for her. She is not a viable candidate, and most republicans know that.

2/25/2011 3:16:40 AM

mbguess
shoegazer
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

I'd vote for her, and I'm not even a Republican

2/25/2011 9:13:00 AM

theDuke866
All American
49492 Posts
user info
edit post

^^^^Oh goddammit, that's what we have to choose from? Looks like more voting abstinence.

2/25/2011 9:58:11 AM

Prawn Star
All American
7590 Posts
user info
edit post

You'd probably like Gary Johnson. Due to weakness at the top, he might pick up some steam as more people learn about him.

2/25/2011 10:15:25 AM

adultswim
All American
5800 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"I'd vote for her, and I'm not even a Republican"


You're either a closet Republican or an idiot. Or both.

2/25/2011 10:51:10 AM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

About 2 months out from the first GOP debates, and no one is actually running yet.

Quote :
"# May 2, 2011 – A national debate, hosted by the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and NBC.
# May 5, 2011 – A South Carolina debate, hosted by the South Carolina Republican Party."

2/27/2011 8:26:37 PM

NCSUJAK
Veteran
266 Posts
user info
edit post

The GOP may as well give up now, they should know they can't beat Obama in 2012

2/27/2011 10:05:18 PM

spöokyjon

18504 Posts
user info
edit post

^^ whoa, wtf?

2/27/2011 10:59:56 PM

mbguess
shoegazer
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"You're either a closet Republican or an idiot. Or both."


My sense of humor trumps any notion of urgency, hence the smoking emoticon

2/27/2011 11:38:56 PM

bobster
All American
2290 Posts
user info
edit post

If you're registered as independent, you can vote in the GOP primary right?

2/28/2011 1:03:47 AM

moron
All American
25455 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"The GOP may as well give up now, they should know they can't beat Obama in 2012
"


They’ll make a token gesture like the democrats did with Kerry. It’s just a matter of who that token will be.

2/28/2011 1:07:20 AM

qntmfred
retired
38496 Posts
user info
edit post

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/01/2091937/huckabee-wrongly-says-obama-grew.html

Quote :
"Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee suggested in a radio interview that President Barack Obama's childhood in Kenya shaped his worldview - even though Obama did not visit Kenya until he was in his 20s.
The potential Republican presidential candidate told New York radio station WOR on Monday that Obama's youth led him to resent the West, which he said explains why, in Huckabee's view, Obama's foreign policy differs so greatly from that of his predecessors.
"One thing that I do know is his having grown up in Kenya, his view of the Brits, for example, (is) very different than the average American," Huckabee said, pointing to Obama's decision in 2009 to remove a bust of former Prime Minister Winston Churchill from the Oval Office.
He failed to note that Obama replaced the Oval Office fixture with a bust of one of his American heroes, President Abraham Lincoln, and moved the Churchill bust to the White House residence.
"The bust of Winston Churchill, a great insult to the British," Huckabee said. "But then if you think about it, his perspective as growing up in Kenya with a Kenyan father and grandfather . he probably grew up hearing that the British were a bunch of imperialists who persecuted his grandfather."
Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama, was detained in a 1952 uprising against British colonial rule in Kenya. Huckabee said childhood stories of the Mau Mau rebellion would lead President Obama to want to remove from the Oval Office the bust of Churchill, who ordered a crackdown against that uprising."


this says to me, either huckabee is a liar and intentionally trying to rile up the birthers, or is an idiot who doesn't know basic facts about the current president and his hopeful future political opponent. very palin-esque if you ask me

3/1/2011 9:50:37 PM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/01/gingrichs-presidential-step-raises-questions-for-fox-news/

Quote :
"Gingrich's presidential step raises questions for Fox News

Washington (CNN) – Now that Newt Gingrich has formed a presidential committee, should he still be employed by Fox News? Can he be?

ABC News broke the story Tuesday morning and multiple news organizations, including CNN and Fox News, followed not long after, reporting Gingrich was set to announce he is forming a presidential exploratory committee later in the week – the first step in what is most likely a bid for the White House.

While reporting the news, Fox also identified Gingrich as a contributor to their network, begging the question, how much longer will that be the case?

At about 12:30 p.m. ET, CNN reached out to Fox News for clarification on whether Gingrich's upcoming announcement will affect his status within the network. After all, Gingrich's contract with the network is believed to be quite lucrative, and there is potentially a lot of money at stake for the former House Speaker.

CNN is still awaiting a response from Fox News on the issue."


Quote :
"Specifically, there might be legal issues if Fox allows Gingrich to promote his own campaign or attack other opponents."


I don't think they'd let him attach his opponents too much, I mean they employ all of them already!

This next part I thought was especially funny:

Quote :
"The law aside, should Fox, which bills itself as a non-partisan media organization, still employ candidates who are running for president?

Kelly McBride, a senior faculty member of the Poynter Institute – a nonpartisan media watchdog organization – says the network does face some risk continuing to employ Gingrich.

"The risk is they will be seen as an extension of the Republican Party or the Republican Party will be seen as an extension of Fox," McBride said. "


I think that boat sailed many years ago. And then got upgraded from a boat to a warship when they gave huge sums directly to the Republican Governors association.

3/2/2011 7:15:31 AM

moron
All American
25455 Posts
user info
edit post

^^ i’m really disappointed in huckabee, i thought he was different.

3/2/2011 7:48:09 AM

spöokyjon

18504 Posts
user info
edit post

Why, because he's folksy?

3/2/2011 11:47:43 AM

smc
All American
9031 Posts
user info
edit post

Obama is a shoe-in.

3/2/2011 11:55:49 AM

Supplanter
supple anteater
21831 Posts
user info
edit post

Fox just suspended Gingrich and Santorum because they might be running for President, and ordered them to declare whether they are running or not by May 1st. Huckabee and Palin were not suspended because they might not be running for President. Its pretty great that Fox News has so publicly taken over the role of declaring GOP presidential runs.

Or maybe they just want to squeeze in every last ounce of Huckabee air time that they can before they have to shut it down?

3/2/2011 8:18:42 PM

packboozie
All American
15521 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"The GOP may as well give up now, they should know they can't beat Obama in 2012"


Surely not based on the great job Obama is doing....

3/3/2011 12:38:52 AM

d357r0y3r
Jimmies: Unrustled
7713 Posts
user info
edit post

^^Accompanying link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/us/politics/03fox.html

I had to look it up for myself.

Quote :
"Mr. Baier did not explain why Ms. Palin, Mr. Huckabee and Mr. Bolton were unaffected, and a Fox News spokeswoman declined interview requests. But Dianne Brandi, an executive vice president at Fox, told The Los Angeles Times that “as soon as each of them shows some serious intention to form an exploratory committee, we would take the same action.”"


Just...wow.

3/3/2011 12:45:12 AM

eyedrb
All American
5853 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"^^ i’m really disappointed in huckabee, i thought he was different.

"


Huckabee has been on just about every show he can to apologize. He said he mispoke and meant Indonesia. Of course the left wont let it go, but that is expected. The point he was making was a good one, however.

Not that I think he can win. But if he still pushes the fairtax he has my vote.

3/3/2011 8:26:31 AM

TerdFerguson
All American
3538 Posts
user info
edit post

If he meant to say Indonesia, why did he specifically reference the mau mau rebellion?

[Edited on March 3, 2011 at 10:17 AM. Reason : and the point he was making was terrible]

3/3/2011 9:57:21 AM

 Message Boards » The Soap Box » GOP Presidential Contenders 2012 Page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 ... 38, Prev Next  
go to top | |
Admin Options : move topic | lock topic

© 2014 by The Wolf Web - All Rights Reserved.
The material located at this site is not endorsed, sponsored or provided by or on behalf of North Carolina State University.
Powered by CrazyWeb v2.37 - our disclaimer.