Yeah, no shit. It means that there should be legislative review when proposing new public land protection. I'm not in favor of closing down the national parks. I do think they should in large part do more to self fund though. No reason at all not to charge admission to shift cost to those who use them the most.

3/22/2014 1:27:20 PM

Quote :

"Until the passage of a bill to protect wilderness lands in the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore last week, Congress had not protected a single new acre of public lands since 2009, the longest such drought since World War II. Adding injury to insult, Congress also forced a 16-day government shutdown last fall that cost national parks and local communities 8 million lost visitors and $414 million in lost visitor spending. Coupled with the ongoing freeze on new parks and public lands bills, a vote next week to block the President’s creation of new monuments and park units would represent the endorsement of a de facto “No More National Parks” policy in the U.S. House of Representatives."

Fortunately, this won't pass, because if it did, closing the parks we already have open would be next.

3/22/2014 1:32:00 PM

Quote :

"Adding injury to insult, Congress also forced a 16-day government shutdown last fall that cost national parks and local communities 8 million lost visitors and $414 million in lost visitor spending. "

This is an incredibly skewed view of what happened. Closing the public parks was done by choice in an effort to anger the public, not done out of necessity or for cost cutting reasons. They could have stayed open very easily.

Also, some parks probably should be closed or at minimum have their status reviewed. I'm a supporter of the national park service, but in all honesty we would be better served if Yellowstone was owned by the Sierra Club than the federal government.

National histoic sites and most "monuments" whether natural or man made can pretty much all fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

3/22/2014 1:37:14 PM

Whose idea was it to shut down the Federal Gov't again?

Oh, right.

[Edited on March 22, 2014 at 1:38 PM. Reason : Republicans]

3/22/2014 1:38:38 PM

But the federal government wasn't shut down. Go back and look at what was actually shut down, what wasn't and how those decisions were made. Don't be intentionally blind to the facts just because you dislike republicans.

They carry quite a burden of responsibility for being, largely, petulant children but so does our current Democratic president and leadership for being intractable.

3/22/2014 1:43:03 PM

Quote :

"but so does our current Democratic president and leadership for being intractable"

Have you been living in the same country as the rest of us? The democrats bent over backwards to gut ACA, Obama had to keep telling pelosi "don't let the good be the enemy of the best," they removed the public option, they made the Medicaid expansions optional even though they were fully budgeted for, then what happens? Republicans turn around and use these points, that they engineered in, as flaws in ACA.

Fast forward to gun control, despite massive public support, democrats put forth toomey's completely watered down bill, that bolsters background checks just a little, and it's shot down. Has the debt ceiling "debate" already faded from your memory?. The stalling of approving the presidents appointed department members was unprecedented and absurd, the republicans basically siding with Putin on both Syria and the Crimea conflict is not surprising, but is flabbergasting. Progressives by nature believe in compromise, and this has only allowed the republicans to steam roll their agendas. The only time the republicans have ever given ground and lived up to their end of the bargain has been the last few months, when they didn't make a big deal about the debt ceiling. Other than that, republicans have literally reneged on all their policy engagements.

3/22/2014 2:20:24 PM

Quote :

"But the federal government wasn't shut down. Go back and look at what was actually shut down, what wasn't and how those decisions were made. Don't be intentionally blind to the facts just because you dislike republicans."

care to provide us with some facts about the non-shutdown?

because you're sounding a bit too much like Ted Cruz

3/22/2014 2:55:51 PM

I, too, look forward to attending "Bank of America National Park" should folks on the right (or libertarians) get their way......

3/22/2014 6:41:39 PM

^^seriously? the obama administration picked and chose what to shut down based on what would be perceived as the most painful to the public.

3/23/2014 12:02:42 AM

go on...

3/23/2014 2:27:36 AM

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures-for-shutdown

3/23/2014 11:53:59 AM

^ lol, I want to believe you posted that as a joke, but I know you seriously buy into that. Very sad.

3/23/2014 12:30:14 PM

Quote :

"Progressives by nature believe in compromise"

That could be because compromise is always a win for Progressives...

3/24/2014 12:12:45 AM

Quote :

"^^seriously? the obama administration picked and chose what to shut down based on what would be perceived as the most painful to the public."

again, who demanded the shut down in the first place? Obama? of course he proceeded to be a dick and make it as painful as possible- THE REPUBLICANS WANTED TO SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT... think about that for a second

3/24/2014 1:16:08 PM

I know this is just soap opera drama, but married, father of five, Christian Conservative congressman caught on tape "making out" with one of his married staffers... same guy who invited the Duck Dynasty guy to the State of the Union address. He's asking for forgiveness.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/07/married-congressman-sorry-after-seen-kissing-staffer-in-video/?hpt=hp_t2

4/8/2014 10:10:32 AM

traditional marriage can not withstand these constant attacks, its time for a constitutional amendment banning adultery and divorce!

4/8/2014 11:23:02 AM

^^ I am just amazed that it wasn't a guy he was kissing, as usually their hatred comes from repression.

4/8/2014 4:14:24 PM

^^lol

4/8/2014 5:09:48 PM

Six Studies That Show Everything Republicans Believe is Wrong
It's time for the right wing to stop lying about the minimum wage, taxes, global warming and more

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/six-studies-that-show-everything-republicans-believe-is-wrong-20140423

Quote :

"The great 20th-century economist John Maynard Keynes has been widely quoted as saying, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" Sadly, in their quest to concentrate economic and political power in the hands of the wealthiest members of society, today's Republicans have held the opposite position – as the evidence has piled up against them, they continue spreading the same myths. Here are six simple facts about the economy that Republicans just can't seem to accept:? 1. The Minimum Wage Doesn't Kill Jobs. [...] 2. The Stimulus Created Millions of Jobs. [...] 3. Taxing The Rich Doesn't Hurt Economic Growth. [...] 4. Global Warming is Caused by Humans. [...] 5. The Affordable Care Act is Working [...] 6. Rich people are no better than the rest of us. [...] "

[Edited on April 24, 2014 at 8:20 AM. Reason : .]

4/24/2014 8:20:19 AM

Rolling stone? Come on dude.

4/24/2014 9:56:55 AM

they just compiled the list, each item links to studies form other sources. many (most?) were already posted here, but they helpfully compiled a list

4/24/2014 10:05:20 AM

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy?”

LOL

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/us/politics/after-supporting-rancher-paul-condemns-his-remarks-on-blacks.html?_r=0

Is anyone really surprised though...? The guy talked about being a revolutionary and wanting to fight the government, while galloping around with an American flag. I don't think there was ever any rational basis to his fight, even Glenn Beck (as seen on TDS) disagreed with him.

I know a lot of you have been saying this but the GOP has a LOT of soul-searching to do if they want to stay relevant. Already demographic trends show younger people are shifting democratic (with the correlation being the president they "came of age" under-- with the Clinton and Bush years being good for democrats), what are republicans going to do to attract these people? Supporting racists and nut jobs, even tacitly, isn't going to cut it.

4/24/2014 1:11:49 PM

I didn't even see this part earlier:

Quote :

"The Washington Post obtained video of his remarks and it quotes him: “Where is our colored brother? Where is our Mexican brother? Where is our Chinese? Where are they? They’re just as much American as we are, and they’re not with us. If they’re not with us, they’re going to be against us.”"

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/upshot/cliven-bundy-accidentally-explained-whats-wrong-with-the-republican-party.html

4/24/2014 7:38:22 PM

You have senators saying insensitive remarks toward white people and even people of color that belong to a different party.

How come that doesn't make the NYTimes?

4/24/2014 8:04:51 PM

oh jesus christ


i do like that the National Review is doubling down on their support for Bundy
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/kevin-williamson-clive-bundy-racist-remarks

[Edited on April 24, 2014 at 8:13 PM. Reason : .]

4/24/2014 8:09:58 PM

^^ probably because you didn't see the broader democratic establishment rush to champion them... As in the case with bundy and every other right wing nut job the GOP likes to harbor, and then wonder why people view them as backwards and out of touch.

4/24/2014 8:17:45 PM

I never really got behind the whole Bundy thing. If he broke the law, he broke the law. I think what was done was overkill, but hey, that's what we get for having such a large government.

4/24/2014 8:48:12 PM

i agree that its overkill, they should have seized his shit years ago

4/24/2014 8:54:26 PM

^^ I find it kinda funny liberals are ok with this and conservatives are ok with police brutality.

Just to generalize.

4/24/2014 9:18:15 PM

Quote :

"You have senators saying insensitive remarks toward white people and even people of color that belong to a different party. How come that doesn't make the NYTimes?"

I can't even tell if you're trolling.

4/24/2014 9:43:44 PM

Quote :

"You have senators saying insensitive remarks toward white people and even people of color that belong to a different party. How come that doesn't make the NYTimes?"

do you seriously not understand how someone being pro-slavery trumps what ever made-up bullshit you're complaining about?

and how that same pro-slavery person was being championed by some of the loudest voices from the right until about 10:00 this morning?

4/24/2014 11:03:13 PM

Quote :

"I find it kinda funny liberals are ok with this and conservatives are ok with police brutality. "

Are okay with what? My understanding is that he was the one that brought guns into this first. I'm not sure what response he expected when he assembled a militia of people to defend his trespassing cows.

If this was the mid-90s, thinks could have gotten a lot worse, Waco style. I actually commend the federal government for showing restraint.

4/24/2014 11:06:41 PM

^^I don't see a problem with them championing government overreach. Why would they not? They had no idea he had whacko views. And why do you see a problem with them distancing themselves.

And I have a big problem with what he said. But it still doesn't change the fact that others get away with the same bullshit time after time. If you're gonna bring up slavery, just about a month ago some prominent black man called a black Republican an Uncle Tom. But hey, it's nothing but my made up bullshit.

4/25/2014 8:11:15 AM

^^ The government is asserting power and conservatives are freaking out about. Yet they are cool with cops beating kids and frisking minorities for no reason.

I also realize the daily show covered this 2 days ago. I'm a day behind but they made this point as well.

Also a black person calling another black person uncle Tom is in no way similar to a white man saying slavery should exist for the good of the black population. Are you dense?

Oh and overreach???? Our prisons are filled with people on minor drug offenses. This guy essentially stopped paying for a service and told everyone to fuck off after multiple court cases. He's lucky he isn't in prison. I think he got off pretty easy.

[Edited on April 25, 2014 at 8:36 AM. Reason : !!!!!!]

[Edited on April 25, 2014 at 8:40 AM. Reason : ?]

4/25/2014 8:31:43 AM

Quote :

"I don't see a problem with them championing government overreach. "

but it wasn't government overreach, it was government being pretty calm and trying to deal with this guy for decades

4/25/2014 8:54:01 AM

haha, headline win:
REPUBLICANS BLAST NEVADA RANCHER FOR FAILING TO USE COMMONLY ACCEPTED RACIAL CODE WORDS
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/04/republicans-blast-nevada-rancher-for-failing-to-use-commonly-accepted-racial-code-words.html

4/25/2014 10:51:56 AM

Not surprising, a lot of WRAL commenters are still defending the Bundy guy. It's mind-boggling:
http://www.wral.com/share/page/1896337/?id=13591736

[Edited on April 25, 2014 at 11:30 AM. Reason : ]

4/25/2014 11:28:12 AM

From the perspective of overreach, if they believe that is what the government did, why not let them defend him on that principle if they wish. Is anyone actually defending his racist comments? I doubt it.

4/25/2014 12:00:43 PM

why not let an armed militia just prevent the federal government from enforcing laws and court orders when they disagree with them? am i understanding you correctly?

4/25/2014 12:03:04 PM

Not to mention the grazing fees are pennies on the dollar for the land value. It would actually cost WAAY more money for this guy to buy or rent the land at market values, than to pay the grazing fees.

And as Jon Stewart pointed out... it was Ronald Reagan who signed the executive order maintaing this system.

I can't help but feel if it were a republican president in power, this wouldn't be an issue...

Whichever politician it was that called this guy a domestic terrorist, i think the description is apt.

[Edited on April 25, 2014 at 12:15 PM. Reason : ]

4/25/2014 12:15:23 PM

Defending the actions of someone via the comments section of a local news outlet is much different than driving out to Nevada with your guns declaring to defend this guy to whatever ends.

By the way, the majority of the protestors were unarmed.

Look, I'm not defending the guy...I don't have all of the details so I don't feel like I can really comment on his situation. From what I've heard, it sounded like the feds were arriving at his place heavily armed to collect a debt. A debt that it sounds like was actually owed to the county and not the feds.

I'm not going to support someone breaking the law, but if I fail to pay taxes, I would certainly be surprised if the auditor showed up with a .357 and 2 bandoliers worth of ammo.

4/25/2014 12:28:02 PM

having a civil discussion is fine, even yelling and cursing and arguing is fine, but there is a connection to the fear mongering you see perpetuated in the media and from the internet and armed standoffs like this. criticizing fear-mongering commentators is fair.

[Edited on April 25, 2014 at 12:31 PM. Reason : autocorrect, whatevs]

4/25/2014 12:31:43 PM

^^ the guy has been on the record for years saying something along the lines of "if they're coming, I'll be heavily armed", so there is a pretty big reason why the authorities would come more armed than usual

and it certainly seems like you're defending the guy with your whole, "but this person said something about race, too", schtick

[Edited on April 25, 2014 at 12:37 PM. Reason : you may wanna let up with attempt of false-equivalency, too ]

4/25/2014 12:34:48 PM

If you don't pay taxes and then say your wife has a shotgun ready you better be certain the cops will show up.

Shit, cops show up with their guns drawn for routine traffic stops. What warped works are you living in?

I know people who have had the cops throw them in jail for falling asleep on the train. People beat for filming the cops doing insane stuff. Again this guy is getting off light.

Jesus

4/25/2014 12:39:25 PM

Quote :

" From what I've heard, it sounded like the feds were arriving at his place heavily armed to collect a debt. A debt that it sounds like was actually owed to the county and not the feds. I'm not going to support someone breaking the law, but if I fail to pay taxes, I would certainly be surprised if the auditor showed up with a .357 and 2 bandoliers worth of ammo."

you've heard wrong, here is the timeline:

Quote :

"LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL CLIVEN BUNDY TIMELINE 1946 ¦ Cliven Bundy is born April 29, 1946, in Las Vegas. ¦ The Bureau of Land Management is established by President Harry Truman on May 16, 1946. The BLM’s functions include replacing the U.S. Grazing Service that was formed in 1934. 1951 ¦ Bundy’s parents move their family into the newly constructed Bunkerville ranch house. 1954 ¦ Cliven’s father, David Ammon Bundy, begins grazing cattle with his 8-year-old son on the Bunkerville allotment near the farm he purchased in 1949. Cliven’s mother, Bodel Jensen Bundy, had homesteaded land near Mesquite. David and Bodel Bundy had moved their family from Mount Trumbull, Ariz., where David was born in 1922. 1973 ¦ Cliven Bundy pays grazing fees to the BLM for the next 20 years. 1993 ¦ The BLM modifies Bundy’s grazing permit by reducing the size allowed for his herd to 150 and restricts where his cattle can graze in the Gold Butte area. He refuses the permit and stops paying grazing fees. The BLM cancels his permit. 1994 ¦ The BLM issues an order requiring Bundy to remove his cattle. 1995 ¦ The BLM issues another order requiring Bundy to remove his cattle. 1996 ¦ Nevada Legislature and voters, seeking to take control of federal land in the state, repeal the so-called Disclaimer Clause of the state’s 1864 constitution that had declared people in the territory “disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands.” 1998 ¦ U.S. District Court of Nevada issues an order to stop Bundy from grazing cattle on the Bunkerville allotment. 1999 ¦ The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upholds the District Court’s permanent injunction. 2000 ¦ Cliven Bundy, whose grandparents, Abraham and Ella Bundy, settled in the Parashant area in 1877 near Mount Trumbull on the Arizona strip, voices concern for President Bill Clinton establishing Grand Canyon-Parashant National Monument. He says it’s a land grab, telling the Review-Journal, “The terrible thing about it is there is private property, customs and lifestyles” at stake. 2008 ¦ The Interior Board of Land Appeals hears Bundy’s appeal of the BLM’s cancellation of his range improvement authorizations and affirms the BLM’s decision. 2011 ¦ The BLM sends a cease-and-desist order to Bundy and a notice of intent to gather his cattle. 2012 ¦ The BLM conducts aerial surveys of the Gold Butte area and prepares to round up 500 to 900 cattle but suspends the operation indefinitely in April 2012 out of safety concerns for people involved with the roundup. 2013 ¦ The U.S. District Court of Nevada in July orders Bundy to remove his cattle from public land within 45 days and says the U.S. can seize and impound any remaining cattle. ¦ The court reaffirms in October that Bundy has no legal right to graze the federal land and, again, directs him to remove his cattle within 45 days, ordering Bundy not to interfere with an impoundment action. 2014 ¦ The BLM issued a Notice of Intent to Impound Unauthorized Livestock grazing on BLM and National Park Service lands on March 19. ¦ The roundup begins April 5. ¦ More than 300 cattle that had been rounded up and held in a corral are released April 12. The operation is canceled by the BLM out of safety concerns for employees. To avoid violence and restore order at the scene, officials in charge of the roundup decide not to stop the demonstrators’ release of the cattle."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/range-war-timeline-events

do you still think you would be surprised after all of this, and after being given a god damn notice, when people showed up to seize your cattle?

4/25/2014 12:40:25 PM

Quote :

"Is anyone actually defending his racist comments? I doubt it"

If you read the golo comments, you will see plenty of people claiming that he never made any racist comments.

Quote :

"From what I've heard, it sounded like the feds were arriving at his place heavily armed to collect a debt."

You haven't followed it very closely. He and his wife have made multiple statements over the years about how he has weapons and is ready to use them on any government entities that come after them.

4/25/2014 12:52:28 PM

Another irony too that the driving force behind the roundup is likely capitalism, not government overreach. The land can't be properly monetized if someone is parking their cows on it.

4/25/2014 1:00:04 PM

Quote :

"and it certainly seems like you're defending the guy with your whole, "but this person said something about race, too", schtick [Edited on April 25, 2014 at 12:37 PM. Reason : you may wanna let up with attempt of false-equivalency, too ] "

Not quite sure what you mean. I'm saying that there shouldn't be a correlation tied to the people that thought they were defending him against an overreaching government (your argument is that there is no overreach, and that is fine too) and the things that Bundy has said regarding a completely different topic. However you all are pretty much implying that anybody that supported him are also supporting his racist views.

Separate the two issues.

4/25/2014 2:18:03 PM

I try to avoid associating myself with people who say insane shit.

4/25/2014 2:31:50 PM

Quote :

"In Bundy’s case, he and other ranchers got shortchanged in the 90s, when the government decided to use the land in question to protect the endangered desert tortoise, ending cattle grazing in exchange for allowing private developers to destroy other tortoise habitats. (Yes, you're right, that does sound shady.) Bundy stopped paying federal grazing fees in protest, and for the past two decades has been illegally feeding his cattle on public land, racking up $1.1 million in unpaid fines in the process. It’s worth noting, though, that even if Bundy had paid, the government still would have forced him to remove his cows from the land, as they did with all of his rancher neighbors. Framed in those terms, it sounded like he had a legitimate beef."

http://m.vice.com/read/cliven-bundy-is-now-americas-nightmare?utm_source=vicefbus

Surprisingly good article. I agree about the dog whistle part to an extent, I think that's what voter id has become for the GOP. Maybe the racism chickens are finally coming home to roost.

4/25/2014 7:05:23 PM