Which is why Amato won't be fired for at least two - three years.

One position change on a football team that as a whole is terrible and they think there's a chance to turn the season around. The folks paying the bills folks, believe.

9/19/2006 12:05:14 PM

i'm paying the bills and I'm excited about this change as well.

9/19/2006 12:06:20 PM

^^why not be excited about the change

i think people are excited at the proposition of having the davis/stone debacle behind us

9/19/2006 12:08:31 PM

Because "Stone" was the second coming of Rivers

And "Evans" is too

And "Burke" is the next Joe Montana

9/19/2006 12:12:20 PM

i talked to my boss yesterday who has a box in vaughan towers and he used the "look what amato has done" when i asked him if he thought amato should stay the coach...and he was AT the southern miss game

9/19/2006 12:13:52 PM

Amato has the strength of 70 undocumented Mexican workers

9/19/2006 12:15:31 PM

chuck amato lifted the steel to build the murphy center with one hand and a boob

9/19/2006 12:27:14 PM

While I have no idea if the QB change will really improve our football team or help our prospects for this season, it is hard to imagine the situation getting any worse. A new QB is the only thing to look forward to seeing Saturday night. Please don't take that away from us.

9/19/2006 12:36:31 PM

^yep....if we lose every game for the rest of the year, i hope we change qb's every week

just gives you some hope, where no hope should be found

9/19/2006 12:49:33 PM

i think people are excited that amato has the balls to change it up this early and not see what happens w/ stone for the next few games

he is going to give DE a chance to shine w/ this start
maybe evans plays well / maybe he plays worse than stone

at least we are trying something different

9/19/2006 12:50:56 PM

^agreed

9/19/2006 1:00:23 PM

Quote :

"One position change on a football team that as a whole is terrible and they think there's a chance to turn the season around."

Correct, because its not like a change at one position in the middle of last season had an impact on the season's outcome...

Oh, wait!

9/19/2006 1:02:36 PM

Quote :

"i'm paying the bills and I'm excited about this change as well."

I'm no longer sold on chuck, but he has done the one thing refused to do


try to fix something

I think we'll see multiple new faces saturday

9/19/2006 1:08:02 PM

Chuck's not even really my problem.

I had our DC.

9/19/2006 1:27:38 PM

If Evans can just throw enough to keep the defenses honest we will see a huge difference.

Not many people are talking about them but Donald Bowens and Jarvis Williams look very good out there as true freshman. Bowens has Cotchery all-over him IMO.

9/19/2006 1:32:54 PM

Any chance others see more plays at WLB? I like Reggie, but for whatever reason we haven't gotten the production at that position this year. That position is really a key for our defense. I know we don't have Tulloch back, I hope we will see a bit more (be it from Reggie, someone else, or some combonation of the two). I even wonder if Reggie would be better at SLB than WLB.

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 1:37 PM. Reason : .]

9/19/2006 1:33:33 PM

Quote :

"i think people are excited that amato has the balls to change it up this early and not see what happens w/ stone for the next few games he is going to give DE a chance to shine w/ this start maybe evans plays well / maybe he plays worse than stone at least we are trying something different"

9/19/2006 1:34:42 PM

a question for all of you that want amato fired...who would you bring in to replace him? if you say cowher, i will laugh you off the page.


before he was coach here, NOBODY talked about nc state football. he put us on the map and has won more games in his time here than anyone else in our football history against tougher competition. we have been to bowl games 5 of 6 years. tommy tuberville at Auburn in his early career had a record and a situation much like chuck's, as did frank beamer. we just lost 3 first round picks. give the man some room. he has earned a little patience from us.

9/19/2006 1:53:56 PM

^ and

Quote :

"at least we are trying something different"

9/19/2006 2:07:14 PM

^^

Quote :

"We will win a national championship - Chuck Amato"

9/19/2006 2:08:47 PM

Tougher conference schedule, because the ACC has improved since the 90's (minus FSU), but certainly not tougher OOC. The Beamer comparison holds no water. Va Tech never had a football program before Beamer. If anything it's just more work for the AD to find a new head coach to keep doing the same thing, that's likely why they kept Beamer, why try to fix something that has always been broken and shows signs of remaining broken. If past traditions and expectations weren't a factor for hiring/firing a coach, and if current wins and losses were the sole bassis for hiring/firing a coach, Ted Roof's solid 3 conference wins this millenium would have been canned in 03.

9/19/2006 2:13:33 PM

"Balls to change this early"

Are you kidding me? We lost to two completely shit teams (blown out by one of the two) and had as much offensive excitement as a soccer match.

9/19/2006 2:16:05 PM

It's good that he made this change but I'm not delusional enough to think that we are all of a sudden going to turn it around. 4-5 wins this year would be absolutely fantastic from here on out to me... I expect 3.

9/19/2006 2:26:06 PM

i'm just looking at what he did for the past 2 years. especially the first year after rivers was gone.

he'd start jay, and then stone would come in and look great in the second half after jay sucked in the first, then jay would start again the next week.

we now know that both of them suck horribly, but it was just discouraging to see amato start davis again after stone came in and looked better.

now it's stone that sucks and evans that looks better, and i was saying all weekend that i knew amato would still start stone next week. he didn't, and i have to give him some credit for that.

i still think we should get a better coach and just make amato recruit for us though

^yeah i'd be really surprised if we get to 6 and make it to a bowl.

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 2:27 PM. Reason : ]

9/19/2006 2:26:43 PM

Quote :

"at least we are trying something different"

amen/thread


You have to try something different to keep people interested. Its stupid to stay with a formula that obviously doesnt work anymore without a great D.

9/19/2006 3:09:52 PM

Quote :

"we just lost 3 first round picks. give the man some room. he has earned a little patience from us."

Manny and Mario he KNEW were going to be gone. You have to recruit to replace people properly.

You don't just say ohh man we lost our 2 best players we are going to suck this year.

9/19/2006 3:41:49 PM

just imagine what it will be like if we win these 2 games. chuck will be the sultan of raleigh once again.

9/19/2006 3:43:27 PM

Stone was supposed to be the next vick comming out of HS.

He tried

9/19/2006 3:44:22 PM

I've said it before... as a somewhat newcomer to State football who can actually be somewhat objective: It all comes down to expectations. If State wants to be a decent, cute program, go to mid level bowl games every year, etc, then Chuck has done a fine job. But, if you want them to be a big time, top 10-15 program year in and year out, contend for the ACC every year, then Chuck has hit the wall the last few years and is starting to decline.

9/19/2006 3:44:58 PM

Quote :

"at least we are trying something different"

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 3:49 PM. Reason : ]

9/19/2006 3:49:10 PM

Quote :

"before he was coach here, NOBODY talked about nc state football. he put us on the map and has won more games in his time here than anyone else in our football history against tougher competition. we have been to bowl games 5 of 6 years. tommy tuberville at Auburn in his early career had a record and a situation much like chuck's, as did frank beamer. we just lost 3 first round picks. give the man some room. he has earned a little patience from us."

It wasn't by winning games. It was by wearing stupid shades and stupid shoes and saying stupid things about other people's programs. P Riv did most of the good publicity. The only "big wins" (not good games/wins, I can think of a few of those) I can think of under Amato was GTech in '00 and FSU in '01 and possibly the MicronPC.com bowl in '00. Beating Notre Dame in the Gator Bowl was not a big win--that team was overrated all year--if we weren't favored, we should have been.

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 3:52 PM. Reason : .]

9/19/2006 3:50:29 PM

Quote :

"It wasn't by winning games. It was by wearing stupid shades and stupid shoes and saying stupid things about other people's programs. P Riv did most of the good publicity. The only "big wins" (not good games/wins, I can think of a few of those) I can think of under Amato was GTech in '00 and FSU in '01 and possibly the MicronPC.com bowl in '00. Beating Notre Dame in the Gator Bowl was not a big win--that team was overrated all year--if we weren't favored, we should have been."

yup, being the #9 team in the country had nothing to do with raising the team's prestige nationally.

9/19/2006 4:08:49 PM

See aside from the character and discipline of the majority of all players, this is my gripe with Chuck

Notice how with alot of top tier teams, bout 10 players from like a unit will get drafted to the NFL, and the sports analysts are all hell fire and brimstone about this team and their next season (i.e. OMG OHIO STATE IS GOING TO BE AWFUL ON DEFENSE) butthat never happens

it NEVER happens, there may be a slight drop off in production, but it never goes from being a team strength to an Achilles heel during the course of the off season. If there is a drop off in talent, then the DC incorporates new schemes to fit what he has, but other than that the guys are ready to get in there and do their jobs

We don't have that here, every year our strength becomes our weakness, EVERY year. Every year, guys come in there starting and they may have the talent, they dont have the in game snaps, nor alot of times even snaps against the first team offense.

Why do we constantly have to rotate players through different positions? The player comes here for 4, 5 years and never get much better than they were when they came, to me thats our biggest problem, the kids need snaps and the kids need to be taught to develop in their positons, so that we always have a bullet ready to fire

but those are just some musings ive had, if u think that is a coaching problem (which I do) chuck needs to go, if you dont, then Chuck should be allowed to stay and have an influence on this

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ;]

9/19/2006 4:09:06 PM

Look at NC State football in 1999.

Look at NC State football now.

If you say we're not better, you are lying.

9/19/2006 4:10:54 PM

i didn't follow recruiting when Stone was in high school. But I do remember there was a QB considering coming to State a few years ago. he saw Stone throw in a practice, then decided not to come here. I guess he also thought Stone was good.

9/19/2006 4:11:19 PM

Quote :

"It wasn't by winning games. It was by wearing stupid shades and stupid shoes and saying stupid things about other people's programs. P Riv did most of the good publicity. The only "big wins" (not good games/wins, I can think of a few of those) I can think of under Amato was GTech in '00 and FSU in '01 and possibly the MicronPC.com bowl in '00. Beating Notre Dame in the Gator Bowl was not a big win--that team was overrated all year--if we weren't favored, we should have been. "

we also came AWFULLY close to beating ohio state and vt...but i'm not saying anything else..i have mixed opinions about amato..i'm giving him a couple more years, just becasue of his recruiting status, but i mean you can only wait for so long.

9/19/2006 4:13:48 PM

^^^if you think our team strengths havent vacillated year after year under Chuck, you are lying

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 4:15 PM. Reason : j]

9/19/2006 4:14:47 PM

Quote :

"Are you kidding me? We lost to two completely shit teams (blown out by one of the two) and had as much offensive excitement as a soccer match"

you have to give your guy a chance
you have to give your starters a chance to gel as a team during real time competition no matter what that level of comp is.

stone had 3 tries to get it done compared to how many tries Jay got last year
so yes, Amato has the balls to change this, this early in the season compared to last year
so no, im not kidding you

btw, dont you know how to use the fucking quote button?

9/19/2006 4:15:28 PM

close doesn't put a "W" in the records

We were a competitive program when PRiv was here. We had decent OOC schedules for most of the PRiv's time. But everything, not just the offense, about NC State football has gone downhill since his departure.

9/19/2006 4:17:46 PM

im excited about the change as well as this season still. we have the tools to win big things. it takes a LOOONG time to build champions. be patient. chuck has what it takes to win and win big, and we've seen that.

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 4:21 PM. Reason : a]

9/19/2006 4:20:17 PM

Quote :

"Notice how with alot of top tier teams, bout 10 players from like a unit will get drafted to the NFL, and the sports analysts are all hell fire and brimstone about this team and their next season (i.e. OMG OHIO STATE IS GOING TO BE AWFUL ON DEFENSE) butthat never happens it NEVER happens, there may be a slight drop off in production, but it never goes from being a team strength to an Achilles heel during the course of the off season. If there is a drop off in talent, then the DC incorporates new schemes to fit what he has, but other than that the guys are ready to get in there and do their jobs We don't have that here, every year our strength becomes our weakness, EVERY year. Every year, guys come in there starting and they may have the talent, they dont have the in game snaps, nor alot of times even snaps against the first team offense. Why do we constantly have to rotate players through different positions? The player comes here for 4, 5 years and never get much better than they were when they came, to me thats our biggest problem, the kids need snaps and the kids need to be taught to develop in their positons, so that we always have a bullet ready to fire but those are just some musings ive had, if u think that is a coaching problem (which I do) chuck needs to go, if you dont, then Chuck should be allowed to stay and have an influence on this"

this is a great observation and its true but the reason behind it is the most important thing in college football and is what seperates the ohio states from the iowas

depth depth depth and more depth

weaker programs like ours have trouble getting top level talent. when we do get that they play the whole time. this contributes to the lack of discipline because if you act up they will take you out at ohio state but can ncstate really afford to sit a guy like morris? nope.

if you saw the texas game ohio state has 10 offensive linemen it plays with no much dropoff. we can barely get 2 or 3.

this kind of depth just takes time to build. we have it running back and if nobody left early we would have it at dline but oline is the most important thing on a football team. if you have depth there you will always be able to move the ball.

most programs with this kind of depth are historic programs that have name recognition recruiting (nd michigan osu usc texas) any other program it takes a while (10 years some say?) to build a powerhouse program.

9/19/2006 4:29:09 PM

everything has not gone down. if we had our post rivers running backs kicker and defense with rivers we would never lose. qb wr and oline are the only thing that has gotten worse. and those pretty much go hand in hand.

9/19/2006 4:32:17 PM

Quote :

"Correct, because its not like a change at one position in the middle of last season had an impact on the season's outcome... Oh, wait! "

Yeah you've got a good point there. When we switched from Baker to Andre Brown we really did turn the season around.

But this year we're changing up QB's and you never really know what you're gonna get when you make a major change at the QB position...

9/19/2006 4:38:56 PM

Quote :

""It wasn't by winning games. It was by wearing stupid shades and stupid shoes and saying stupid things about other people's programs. P Riv did most of the good publicity. The only "big wins" (not good games/wins, I can think of a few of those) I can think of under Amato was GTech in '00 and FSU in '01 and possibly the MicronPC.com bowl in '00. Beating Notre Dame in the Gator Bowl was not a big win--that team was overrated all year--if we weren't favored, we should have been. "

beating FSU's ass 3 of 6 times

playing the game of the year at the horseshoe and being a cunt hair from beating the defending national champions

same year, at FSU, a TA fumble from routing the seminoles (acc champs) at their house

only #1 pick EVER from an ACC school

putting first round talent in the league every year - this raises your profile probably more than anything else


Chuck has done a lot. this year, we stink. no doubt about that. but he gets a pass in my book. it takes a long time to build a football program. there are no quick fixes

9/19/2006 4:48:28 PM

Basically Mike O'Cain built Chucks most succesful football teams. Now we have to see if Chuck can build his own...

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 4:50 PM. Reason : x]

9/19/2006 4:49:53 PM

hcnguyen sums up some of my thoughts in re of BigHits post about talent, etc.

The traditional powerhouses in the NCAAFB world will continue to dominate until they SMU themselves. There is only a finite amount of real power players out there and its an always ebbing and flowing migration among the dynasty schools (the Floridas, FSUs, Miamis will be back on top eventually).

We just can't compete on this front and it could very well take another decade of steady upwards momentum of the program to begin to even think on that level.

I do take issue with one comment though

Quote :

"The player comes here for 4, 5 years and never get much better than they were when they came, to me thats our biggest problem, the kids need snaps and the kids need to be taught to develop in their positons, so that we always have a bullet ready to fire"

Some do, some don't. The McCargos, Tullochs, Lawsons, Colmers, Cotchcerys of our program would tend to disagree with you.

Quote :

"if u think that is a coaching problem (which I do) chuck needs to go, if you dont, then Chuck should be allowed to stay and have an influence on this"

I say we probably still need a couple more years to sort this out. It's a real shame that we didn't capitalize on the Gator Bowl momentum but the KSUs, Oregons, Northwesterns, and other schools out there that had similar meteoric rises like we did have had equally disappeared from the landscape (though I don't know their reasons).

9/19/2006 4:50:56 PM

Quote :

"Look at NC State football in 1999. Look at NC State football now. If you say we're not better, you are lying."

We are not better. In 1999 MOC went 6-6 losing to a good UNC and ECU team.

9/19/2006 5:53:43 PM

Quote :

"I say we probably still need a couple more years to sort this out. It's a real shame that we didn't capitalize on the Gator Bowl momentum but the KSUs, Oregons, Northwesterns, and other schools out there that had similar meteoric rises like we did have had equally disappeared from the landscape (though I don't know their reasons)."

Oregon is ranked in the top 15 and is undefeated (say what you will about last game, but they still won their other two games)

and KSU is undefeated as well and has the ability to win the Big 12 North

I wouldn't even mention both of those programs in the same breath as NC State because at least those teams have finished better than 4th place in their respective conferences in at least one of the last 4 seasons.

I think people are finally starting to realize what a weak conference the ACC is and with all the talent NC State has had over the last few years I think it's pretty fucking sad a 4th place finish in the conference is enough to warrant a parade.

9/19/2006 6:14:37 PM

Quote :

"f State wants to be a decent, cute program, go to mid level bowl games every year, etc, then Chuck has done a fine job. But, if you want them to be a big time, top 10-15 program year in and year out, contend for the ACC every year, then Chuck has hit the wall the last few years and is starting to decline."

not many people had a problem w/ him until the end of last year. we're not asking him to be 10-15 every year, but right now it's not looking like we're even close to a "decent" program. losing to a mac and cusa team is not acceptable, i don't care how well they did in the mac or cusa last year.

9/19/2006 6:24:56 PM

neither is a 7-5 record every year

if 20+ WINS in basketball isnt good enough for the fans
then, neither should this

talk about mediocre / you people called herb mediocre
our football program is in worse shape than basketball had been in years

[Edited on September 19, 2006 at 6:38 PM. Reason : ;lk]

9/19/2006 6:38:07 PM